Pharmacist's religious/moral objection to emergency contraception

[lilly0]

A while ago I went into Boots to buy the MAP. The pharmacist on duty wouldn't prescribe to me for religious reasons but pointed another pharmacy to me no biggy I thought but then I thought about it. Why would a pharmacist object to emergency contraception it isn't an abortion pill they don't seem to mind selling condoms and dispensing the pill ?
Is there any reason not to sell the MAP ?

YANBU! Following this logic, is it ok for say a Jewish person to get a job at a supermarket and refuse to accept money from customers on Friday evenings? Because it is going against their religion? I think no-one should be accepting a job that can potentially conflict with their morals.

Religion! Again

Giles -
a) I mean, another practitioner in the same place at the same time. To literally hand over/swap. If it's a booked procedure with a vet or surgeon the person carrying out the procedure will know what it is in advance so will be someone who is happy to do it. If it's a GP appointment, they'd just have to swap/go and get someone else to sign. Even my local small country practice has several doctors there at a time. They wouldn't ask someone to rebook an appointment for something that's not their fault.

b) Why would the objection be a religious one? It could just as easily be moral, social, political or personal, depending on what it is they feel they can't do.

I don't think it's ideal to allow someone to refuse to do a part of their job but it's clearly a much bigger thing to make someone perform a procedure they don't agree with than it is to ask them to hand over a packet. Like the PP who is a vet and wouldn't want to dock a tail. That would be really distressing for her to have to do. I can't believe it would be distressing to complete a retail transaction. I think the former is wrong but understandable whereas the latter is just ludicrous and petty.

We used to use a GP practice where the GPs refused to prescribe contraception - the pill etc. The receptionist did explain this when we joined (big Catholic area in London) but they were our nearest GP practice so left us with either using family planning service (which we did but this was years ago and many of these have closed / reduced services now) or travelling further to a GP.

I have concerns that legal services in this country are not provided and women (why is it always women?) have to jmup through hoops to get alternatives. Why should the OP go to a different chemist for an item which is available on prescription? Why should I have had to go to a different GP practice (not even a different GP in the same practice) for the same?

The right to religious freedom and the right to vote are both fundamental to our democracy. I have no wish for the U.K. to become a dictatorship with reduced personal freedom.

The right to religious freedom was probably harder fought and certainly cost more lives than the right to contraception or abortion. There is room for both. One person’s wish for emergency contraception should not override another’s freedom to uphold their beliefs.
Plenty of other people to obtain emergency contraception from - even if you’re young and vulnerable. In some areas school nurses will prescribe and/or dispense it. There are sexual health clinics in most towns. There is rarely only one pharmacy. GPs will prescribe it. It’s hardly difficult to obtain.

Should a GP noy be allowed to refuse to refer for procedures they don’t agree with? Should a surgeon not be allowed to refuse to perform a procedure they don’t agree with? Should a nurse be forced to care for a patient undergoing a procedure they don’t agree with?

No, no and yes.

The right to religious freedom and the right to vote are both fundamental to our democracy.

But - as recent legal cases have shown - your right to religious freedom doesn't mean that you can, say, refuse to allow a gay couple to stay in your B&B because you're a Catholic. So why should it allow you, as a pharmacist, to refuse to provide a prescription for the contraceptive pill or the MAP? It's inconsistent.

How would they know what it's about? I often tell receptionists that I don't want to tell them.

And if that practitioner is in another appointment for something similar and cant swap?

Patients have jobs too they cant hang around indefinitely waiting.

And what if the added trouble means someone just gets up and walks out. Vulnerable women leaving the surgery cos people won't do their jobs?

Have you posted this before OP? I’m sure I’ve seen this exact same post word for word...

If it were an independent pharmacy I think it’d just be one of those things you’d have to shrug off but the fact it was Boots Makes it very wrong as it is a service they actively advertise that provide. Probably warrants a complaint actually.

Plenty of other people to obtain emergency contraception from - even if you’re young and vulnerable. In some areas school nurses will prescribe and/or dispense it. There are sexual health clinics in most towns
Not on a Saturday day time. If you have to wait till a Monday to get this emergency contraception, it's effectiness is massively reduced.

Actually, I thought the emergency pill prevented an embryo implanting, but as a previous poster said, it actually prevents an egg being released...so not sure what the objection is then or why its sometimes referred to as the abortion pill. NHS wording copied below:
There are two kinds of emergency contraceptive pill. Levonelle has to be taken within 72 hours (three days) of sex, and ellaOne has to be taken within 120 hours (five days) of sex. Both work by preventing or delaying ovulation (release of an egg).

It should be made very, very clear if any business allows staff to prioritize their own idiot superstitions over customers' perfectly legal requests. So if you hire a pharmacist that won't dispense contraception, then you need to have a big permanent sign on the door or never let that person be the only pharmacist on duty. (Or just hire someone who isn't a woman-hating dicksplash in the first place.)

Imagine if a business allowed employees to refuse service to people because they had a foreign accent, or pink hair, because that conflicted with the employee's horoscope that morning.

The problem is that the Christian religious community have chosen to define pregnancy in a way that is not the medical definition of it. They chose to believe that pregnancy starts when the egg is fertilised instead of when that egg is implanted. This means that they them believe that anything that prevents the egg from implanting like the coil, MAP and pill are abortificants.

I don’t think pharmacists should be allowed to pick and choose what items they dispense. If they feel unable to dispense the MAP then they should find a role where there are other pharmacists present who are prepared to prescribe things that they aren’t. And it should be the responsibility of the employer to ensure this is the case. I have taken the MAP on one occasion. I would have felt I had been judged if the pharmacist had refused to sell it to me.
I was really surprised to learn that nurses can refuse to work with patients who are having an abortion. Surely the logical thing would be for nurses not prepared to be in a theatre where an abortion is being carried out would be to not be specialising in gynaecology procedures.

The problem is that the Christian religious community

Please point me to anywhere that the OP has stated the region if the pharmisist.

The problem is that the Christian religious community have chosen to define pregnancy in a way that is not the medical definition of it. They chose to believe that pregnancy starts when the egg is fertilised instead of when that egg is implanted. This means that they them believe that anything that prevents the egg from implanting like the coil, MAP and pill are abortificants

I have served thousands of people from all back grounds and all walks of life over the years. I can tell you that there are a very surprising number of people from all of them that whatever they claim to be, smoke drink do drugs gamble and have sex with people that aren't their wives/husband's

That's fine live your life as you choose. That is your right.

But all this suddenly caring about what the bible or religious text says when it applies to other people....well.....

The right to body autonomy is fundamental to our democracy. I have no wish for the U.K. to become a dictatorship with reduced personal freedom.
The right's of women are probably harder fought and certainly cost more lives and continue to do so than the right to having your own private beliefs. There is room for both. One person’s wish to enforce their own personal beliefs over another should not override another’s freedom over their own body.

Plenty of other people to agree with you and celebrate your religion with- even if you’re fanatical and overbearing. In some areas there are even special schools just for your own religion. There are Churches in most towns. There is never occasion where your personal beliefs should come before the legal rights of others or should you be able to impose your beliefs on them. It’s hardly difficult to understand.

There you go Pav I've corrected it for you.

The problem is that the Christian religious community have chosen to define pregnancy in a way that is not the medical definition of it. They chose to believe that pregnancy starts when the egg is fertilised instead of when that egg is implanted.
Christians (or some Christians) believe that life starts when an egg is fertilised, because something new has been created, a new dna combination. That is why medication that prevents implantation is abortive.

GoatPavlova we have one pharmacy, no sexual health clinic, the nearest high schools do not have school nurses. You need to travel to the next local town either direction for a family planning clinic.

The one in the nearest town is open on a Tuesday and a Thursday, the town in the opposite direction, 2 bus journeys away is only open on a Wednesday.

So going back to the argument of someone being on a low wage/benefits- paying £6.50 for a return for the one, or a day rider at £7.20 for the other, is a lot to some people!

Ideally we would all have access to these types of services. However, they are being shut left, right and centre!

Following this logic, is it ok for say a Jewish person to get a job at a supermarket and refuse to accept money from customers on Friday evenings?

Yes it is actually. Many Jewish people do jobs on the understanding that they won't have to work on the Sabbath. I worked with a Jewish lady who worked every Friday until 3pm and all day Sunday so she could have the Sabbath off but by turn covered the other popular shifts her colleagues wanted off.

Muslims staff tills where they don't serve alcohol (as do staff under 18) or stack shelves without alcohol or pork on them.

I've worked with plenty of people who need adjustments and have never found it a particular problem.

I believe most chain chemists will take this into account when recruiting and legally would have to. So if they're recruiting for a city centre pharmacy with alternatives around the corner then it's not a problem. But in village pharmacies where it would cause a genuine lack of access to contraception it's a no go. In the first case they could claim religious discrimination but not in the second.

If it were an independent pharmacy I think it’d just be one of those things you’d have to shrug off but the fact it was Boots Makes it very wrong as it is a service they actively advertise that provide. Probably warrants a complaint actually.

That's a very good point. Also - presumably Boots are allowed to choose not to employ people who choose not to dispense it? I.e. It's not a condition of being a pharmacist that you have to, but it is of your employment contract with Boots?

"So if they're recruiting for a city centre pharmacy with alternatives around the corner then it's not a problem."

I think that it is a problem to have to go elsewhere.

It might have taken a lot to go to that once place as it is & to be turned away because someone has judged them might make them feel unable to go elsewhere.

I don’t think it’s appropriate or professional for her to decide what she can and can’t dispense for a national pharmacy chain. Definitely complain OP.

whisky
That is far better. Again. Why do women always bear the brunt of these “moral”, religious and societal issues?

I don’t think it’s appropriate or professional for her to decide what she can and can’t dispense for a national pharmacy chain. Definitely complain OP.
Boots will know and will have agreed to the pharmacist not dispensing the MAP. It was probably agreed at the interview stage. You would need to complain about the policy, not the individual pharmacist.