To ask why women financially dependent on men are viewed as morally superior to those dependent on the state?!

[Primarkismyonlyoption]

Just that really, my experience and something I see everywhere.
Having a baby on benefits? Irresponsible. Single mums? A drain on society raising kids without fathers who are growing up to be uncontrollable. A government document citing such women as raising the 'psychopaths of the future'. Women to blame for a cycle of poverty which never ends.
What scroungers. Lack of morals. Less so than married women whose husbands work. Why?
Why are women in relationships where men provide financially known as SAHMs but single mums are just that. Implying thay staying at home is only a morally acceptable choice if you have a partner. The single parents are pushed to find work by baby aged 2. Housework for them isnt seen as work at all but sitting on their arses all day.

Instead of the moral segregation of women based on their relationship status why can we not view their lives as equal in the case of any woman whom cannot be financially independent in their own right, and start to look at how more women can become independent of both men and the welfare state?
And to stop double standards as if mums hide what money they have in order to claim money for their kids they are done for benefit fraud.
If men do it by hiding capital in court for maintenence or divorce, the woman is still gets judged for having to live off benefits whilst men get off scot free and go on to impregnate more whomen whom may or may not stay together. Worse, imo, the judgement of women recieving welfare assistance is doubled if there are more than one father, the children are mixed race, the more children there are or the fact the woman dares to have a sexual relationship with another partner whom she cannot afford to live with because most men cannot or won't take financial responsibility for children who aren't theirs just because they love their mum. And why should they?
As it happens I had babies on benefits and have fucking grafted to get to where I am. I work equally hard as I did then but in a totally different way. Yet the difference in how I am treated is astounding.
AIBU to ask for your views on this and what can we do to change it?

Massive fail OP. There is a difference between a family funding a child and the State funding a child. However, whether or not you are married, if you have chosen a ‘bad’ partner, the results can often be the same. You will end up a single parent. I’m more pissed off about women and men not using birth control. So many people act like they do but they really don’t. So many innocent children born into awful lives, if only the adults had been responsible instead of whining about their rights. Sorry not sorry.

OP I completely agree. I've been a single parent for the past six years. I decided I could no longer raise my son under the same roof as his emotionally abusive father. I was getting ill and things had to change.

I remember calling up about income support and sobbing because I was so embarrassed. I'd never had to rely on the state before. I remember telling my dad about it and he told me to dry my eyes and never ever be ashamed. My dad is a higher tax earner, and has always said he never begrudges paying extra so that those in need get help. My Dad fucking rocks.

I've never been ashamed since. I don't know anyone in real life who is openly negative about single mums. All I ever see is that shit in the media. All the single mothers I know are strong and fucking wonderful.
Mothers in general are fucking wonderful. I wish the bashing would stop. The media likes to play us off against one another. It's bullshit.

These threads make me laugh lot. You have to be earning in excess of 95k i believe to actually not be costing the state money in spite of your tax etc (ok i don't know the exact figure but it is significantly far from average wage). So. That's a lot of "scroungers" congrats in judging others for that.
Having children costs the state money. You've got to be lousy at finance if you think the average wages tax is going to cover the health, education, welfare costs for someone from birth to 18 over and above their own costs on services, government health etc.
I think my answer to anyone when I was a single parent (working) and now a SAHL (charmed). Is fuck the fuck off. None of your bloody business if a single parent chose to be or is divorved or widowed. None of your bloody business why I stay at home.
Plenty of adult carers of elderly parents are saving money from the system.
AND. People go through different phases in their life. I am only 42 and have managed to be a high earner, a single working parent, unemployed, on minimum wage and a sray at home parent. Things change.
The Mash report message from women everywhere. Have a watch. Have a laugh. This negative drag everyone down attitude is ludicrous.

OP you're coming across as a very bitter jealous person.

That’s because she is. On another thread recently she said she judges all brides as pathetic.

Probably because they’re completely different.

The media likes to play us off against one another. It's bullshit.

So true.

What about SAHM where the husband claims tax credits because the wife is at home.
Bet that is seen as more acceptable because their married.

Also - getting back into work as a single parent with no support isn’t exactly easy.

You need to find childcare. There can be a waiting list that’s up to a year long. You apply for jobs and hope for the best and if you’re REALLY a lucky you get a job that matches up with when your child can start at nursery/childminder. Wonderful! Then they ask you for a month up front. Which you can’t magic out of your arse or take out of the money you already have because it’s going on rent, bills and food. So potentially you then have to start saving up along side waiting to be able to pay for childcare so you can get a job and then apply for tax credits towards childcare which will eventually get sorted at some point. Then people judge you for having “too much” on benefits because you CAN afford to save. Then you might wait for 6 weeks or more for your first pay cheque. There might be a fuck up and you’re on emergency tax. Then your housing benefit may run out before you have enough money to pay your rent.

It’s really not that easy and it’s really fucking daunting if you don’t have support financially and or emotionally.

Or you go to work part time and find that you’re no better off than you were when you weren’t working at all and you wonder what the fuck the point in any of it is anymore.

The problem here is that men who bugger off and pay the absolute minimum they can get away with in cs are not forced by the state to be properly, financially accountable for the children they produce. Which forces women into relying on benefits. Why do we let men, after a relationship breaks up, keep all the money?

Tax credits is a red herring - they exist because the govt won't force employers to pay a true living wage, so there is no option but for the state to top up. That's nothing to do with the employee.

Tbh I don't think sahm are respected. I often hear on mn the attitude that we are living off a man and little mention of what we are contributing to our households.

I remember calling up about income support and sobbing because I was so embarrassed. I'd never had to rely on the state before. I remember telling my dad about it and he told me to dry my eyes and never ever be ashamed.

The day we no longer as a state and as a society support vulnerable people who need it is the day I emigrate to the fucking moon. Benefit fraudsters and piss takers are a minority. The majority of people have fallen on hard times, as can happen to any one of us, and it is a temporary situation.

Poverty is still wretched in our society, but people don't generally starve and die in gutters any more. Ignore any knuckle dragging 16th century throwback who hasn't worked out yet that this is supposed to be a good thing.

Oh and I didn't go back to work til DS went to school. I'm self employed and don't earn enough to pay tax. So I swapped income support for working tax credit, and I still don't "contribute" to society by paying tax. I do however voluntarily pay national insurance.

I'll never forget the lady in the job centre telling me how much better I'd feel once I started contributing to society again. She didn't know what to say when I pointed out it wouldn't be enough to pay tax. Working again was fantastic though. I hadn't realised how much better I'd feel in myself.

Once ds is bigger I'll work more. It's not financially viable for me to work full-time right now. I couldn't care less if people judge me for that.

What about the house husband who doesn't pay tax and lives off his working wife. Where are they in your morality scale? Do the same rules apply ?

I don't think the OP sounds bitter at all.

How about we just stop judging women full stop. Surely it doesn't matter if you work, sahm, single mother etc. There are lots of complex reasons for every decision we make in terms of our children and our lives. I have been judged for being a sahm, my sister has been judged for being a single mum, my mum was judged for going to work and you know what we are all good mum's who made the best out of the situation we were in at the time. I chose to stay at home because it is what worked for our family, my sisters partner left her, my mum was a single mum who worked when she was able to provide what she could. None of us were better than the rest just different situations.

The majority of people have fallen on hard times, as can happen to any one of us, and it is a temporary situation.

Couldn't agree more PoorYorick

You've got to be lousy at finance if you think the average wages tax is going to cover the health, education, welfare costs for someone from birth to 18 over and above their own costs on services, government health etc.
One day I would go and read the exact statistics behind this because this sounds so dodgy to me.
For example, I have lived and worked in countries with virtually no tax compared to what we pay in UK. I was able to afford all these things privately. And at a standard not that far from what we have here. So a detailed analysis of how much it takes to provide all this versus how much we pay into the system as s whole is very important here. i never understand tho a argument because of my experiences abroad.

"This argument"

Crunched

"Why do we fight about moral superiority when the solution is that the two people responsible for choosing to have a baby (and it is a choice, not a right) should be responsible for supporting that child."

Because the OP wants us to fight about it, we're the real victims. 😢

Why do we let men, after a relationship breaks up, keep all the money?

I'm going to get flamed to a crisp for this, but in many cases - not all, but a great many - this could be helped greatly if women insisted on marriage before they had kids. I'm not trying to blame women, but I think we really need better education on what marriage is (a lot of people don't actually know - the 'piece of paper' and 'common law spouse' brigade) and why it's so often a genuine protection.

Tbh I don't think sahm are respected. I often hear on mn the attitude that we are living off a man and little mention of what we are contributing to our households.

I'm not unsympathetic to this, but I do find myself wondering who SAHMs want respect from? They make their choices and sacrifices for their families' benefit. That's well and good, and certainly SAHMs deserve basic respect for their decisions. But why should anyone else outside of that family care?

A married SAHM not on benefits doesn't cost the state more than a working married mum (tax credit apply regardless, correct?)

A SAHM on benefits costs the state more than if she was working.
Conclusion: YABU
What am I missing?

All the fathers who dont give 50% of their time or meet the mothers of their children 50:50 with the financial burden are the ones stealing from society. "Society" has to give the mothers enough to survive on because certain fathers are able to take on 2% of the responsibility and 5% of the finacial repercussions of parenthood. Society partially not wholly makes this up to the mother but only so much so that she can scrape by. The fathers who do this steal opportunity, income, potential, savings fulfilment and freedom. Society happily allows this. I contributed more to society than this type of father. I wont even say my x as there are worse fathers! But if somebody in a job centre told me i wasnt contributing when id been forced to "contrubute" my whole life i would have seen red

Staying at home for a few years is fine (even if supported by the taxpayer), however under the Blair/Brown govt single mums were allowed to stay home until their child was 16!!! That was taking the piss.

Well at least you are fair about the women you are calling leeches NotAnotherEmma. Name calling two groups of women. Go you.

Not bitter at all what
Yet again you are misinterpreting my posts from another thread, which isn't relevant here so please don't go off topic.

I judge the men for not supporting their children and letting state pick up the tab.

this in spades