To think that a lot of people don't seem to understand that part-time work = much smaller pension?

[AHedgehogCanNeverBeBuggered]

I work with a lot of women in their 50s, several of whom have expressed their shock/disgust at how little occupational pension they'll be receiving when they retire, even proportionally compared to FT workers. They have all had DC then remained PT even after the DC became teenagers and eventually left for uni. I didn't want to say anything to them when they were complaining to me how hard done by they are, but surely it's basic maths to know that the more you invest (and the earlier) the more it grows and therefore the greater the pension? How can they now claim to be so surprised and hard done by?

They'd rather cut benefits for groups that don't vote .

You can only cut so much though. I think the 100 year life should be mandatory reading. A pension age of 65 is just no longer feasible... plus who wants 35 years of retirement??

Its work longer or Logan's Run for all of us

@missadasmith - my son’s care package is nothing to be jealous of. His last providers made him homeless with 2 weeks notice (why he came home for a few weeks and why I couldn’t start retraining last year - our other children had to move out to allow him home so it couldn’t be a long term option). He is now sectioned 8 hours away from home because the LA couldn’t pull a care package together in the time available. I hope to be able to get him back here before I start retraining but my lack of pension is a large reason why I need to do it now, wherever he is. I’m hoping he’s back here before the timetable makes 16 hour round trips difficult.

My post was actually to agree with previous posters about how difficult it is to work when you have a child with severe disabilities. It’s also not usually possible to save. At the moment we need 20k to reduce the risk of ds1 being sectioned again if future placements break down (it would allow us to buy into the My Safe Home scheme for him). We don’t have 20k but if we did we would be using it for that rather than savings/pension.

not everyone will live to 100 though.

can you imagine working in your current job past 65?

how old are your children op?

I remember the days, not long ago, where the goal for some people was to retire at 40! I also know people working long past 75 with no sign or means to retire anytime soon.

I'd rather plan for no state pension - or next to nothing pension and be pleasantly surprised than having my hopes up.

devilish, my post wasn't meant goady - sorry if it can across that way. Sounds like you have been through a lot.

DD is only 10 (ASD + severe learning diffs) and I worry greatly about the future (hers and mine) and I worry how to get back full time when I see so many mums who end up as pretty much full time carers for their disabled adults children. it probably didn't come across that way.

Actually the other point about the retraining is that this was something I wanted to do 12 years ago but couldn’t because of the issue of caring for a severely disabled child. I have worked for myself from home for years, but never earned much (made some NI contributions though) and over the last 3/4 years have had to frequently take months off to deal with the latest crisis. For extended periods dh was also only able to work until 2pm as was needed here when DS1 was home. The impact of a severely disabled child on things like pensions is rarely recognised but it’s huge. I suppose in the past NI contributions via carers allowance were meant to bridge the gap but now....

I do agree with PP that I wouldn’t want 30 years retirement though. Although also wouldn’t want the stress of full time work in mid 70’s!

Well I don't understand why it would be proportionaly less.

Surely if they work 50% their pension will be 50% of a full time employee?

Ah okay @missadasmith - I misread, sorry. It is really hard and I do know what you mean about adult services. The support for people invetween needing full support and independent living is outrageously bad.

I'm in my 50s and work part time. I have a heart condition and am unlikely to make 67 - my retirement age (currently). Not all of us are going to get a state pension, let alone a reduced one.

Luckily I invested heavily when young. So I can retire in 3-4 years on that - if I'm lucky.

(my nan was in finance - "put by 15% of take home for your future" - started doing it for my Saturday job, kept doing it later.)

A lot of my friends have support packages that run from 10-3 3 days a week. Their grown up children need someone there all the time. How are they meant to work around that?

I’m 40 and the age 60 retirement that we were led to believe in as teens is long gone and I’m guessing it will shift again by time I reach my 60’s. There won’t be much retirement time to have. Although seeing how poorly my mum is at 68 I do wonder how many people will actually be capable of working at near 70.

how old are your children op?

I would like to know this too.

slarty A lot of people will though. I don't have the book to hand, but it's something like people born in 2000 have a more than 50% chance of living to be 100.

I could definitely work in my job past 65 (predominantly a desk job, experience counts for a lot, lots of consultancy/ research/PT opportunities) However, appreciate not all jobs can cater for that. I think we will see a lot more people continuing to work at least PT into their seventies to subsidise meagre pensions. It's also why I see it as critical to keep reinvesting in my skill set.

I suppose in the past NI contributions via carers allowance were meant to bridge the gap but now....

do you not clock up NI credits whilst being on carers allowance so you can (provided enough qualifying year) get the full state pension?

I know this isn't the same as having a private pension on top but I always thought I could at least count on getting a full state pension if (or better say when) caring will force me to quit.

I'm 51 and have worked full time all my life apart from about seven years when I still worked 30 hours instead of 36. I've lost about 18 months off my pension benefits as a result.

I worked with older people when I was young and distinctly remember them talking about their pensions at the time and how they were getting as many years full time in as possible to bump it up. This was the eighties so I am somewhat surprised that the ladies the OP work with are ignorant about what their pensions will pay.

In fact I have become those lovely middle aged ladies I worked with and constantly check my statements to see what I will get at 60 because there is no way on earth I am sticking it out until I'm 67.

I went part time in my mid 30s when I started my family. Late 50s now and I never went back to full time. I have pangs when I think what my pension could have been like but would never trade the flexibility part time work gave me as my children were growing up.

I'm glad I don't have to rely on my state pension though as there is no way I could keep doing my current job until I'm 67/68.

Some of us work part time because of medical conditions that prevent us working full time. It's a bit of an assumption that part time women are all having a jolly or looking after children

I am well aware my pension is less than it would be if I was full time. Fuck all I can do about it.

Thanks for rubbing my face in it though, OP.

@StealthPolarBear @NeverTwerkNaked This isn't about not working, it's about working part-time -- and the effect it has on women's pensions. Apologies if I phrased my last post in a way that suggested I was talking about SAHMs; that wasn't my intention.

Now, I work too. At paid jobs as well! I have spent many years of my adult life, including as a parent, doing full-time jobs.

Let's look at the statistics, though, before we blind ourselves with smugness.

1. Women only account for 35% of full-time work in the UK - and many of those jobs have been disappearing (www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/21/latest-job-stats-full-time-work-is-disappearing-for-women-but-not-for-men)

1. Women are significantly more likely to do part-time work AT SOME POINT in their lives. They are also significantly more likely to have caring responsibilities, either for children, disabled relatives, or elderly parents. I feel strongly and will say again that this is not time taken to "smell the roses"! The absence of paid work, as part of the pattern of women's working lives, tends to indicate a glut of UNPAID care work.

1. Part-time working is, unfortunately, still the main flexible working option. The IPPR have this to say on the subject: "The prevalence of part-time work as the main flexible working option may be

contributing to two problems: unnecessarily low average working hours among mothers during the early stages of parenthood, and mothers’ average working hours remaining low during subsequent life-phases." (www.ippr.org/files/publications/pdf/women-and-flexible-working_Dec2014.pdf)

1. Women take part-time jobs below their skill level simply to get the flexibility. "The concentration of part-time work outside of high-level jobs may increase the tendency for women to work in occupations below their skill level." (IPPR again)

1. There is also a 'part-time work penalty'. (www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42939584) This affects not only the pay level of the part-time work that they do at the time, but their pay progression and the pay levels of subsequent full-time jobs. AND THEIR PENSIONS.

1. School days start at 9 and end just after 3. There are half terms and holidays. Unless you are well-off enough to be able to (a) pay a nanny or for childcare (which can actually be hard to find and you may pay a premium for it), or (b) are well off enough to be able to accommodate an au pair, then this is a serious problem for parents. Now, let me guess which parent bears the brunt of this serious problem. I'm not talking about an ideal world, but let us please accept the reality: WOMEN tend to get loaded with this. On top of full-time or part-time work, which over time tends to lead to part-time work either through choice or through being forced by redundancy or job loss.

Yep you do @missadasmith I just meant the state pension isn’t worth what it was. I have kept an eye on my NI contributions over the years but I’m not sure it will be worth much.

what a goady post OP. Not everyone working p/t with older DC is a lazy fecker.

I too have a severely disabled child and cannot work more that a few hours.

If you tell me where I can get affordable (I am not talking £20+/hour rate that is quoted but specialised providers) childcare for my severely learning disabled child, then I would happily return full time.

You are one lucky person of you can work full time because you are not ill/disabled yourself and have significant caring responsiblies for someone else. You are having a bloody easy ride.

Thanks for rubbing it in though!

I worked very hard, full time, all my life in the voluntary sector, supplemented by shit jobs in catering, etc, before I had DC. A pension on my salary was never an option then. When - after I had my DS - it did become an option, it was essentially a choice between poor then or poor later. I chose poor later, as I'd rather use all my money when my DS is a child and at home. I accept that this means that I will struggle as I get older, and will not have a good retirement - and indeed may never be able to retire, as long as someone will employ me - but I calculated it was worth it to give my DS a childhood as comfortable as I could possibly make it.

I’m pretty robust in fighting the equality battle at home Magna although I agree lots of families still place an unfair level of burden on the woman. I do school hours then pick up work in the evenings. So DH does the majority of the household admin and housework. He can’t work from home in his job so this balance works for us. We do an equal split of holiday cover, plus a few weeks of holiday clubs.
There has to be a balance though, I am happy to make some compromises in my career to balance time with my children. old age is not guaranteed. I have lost enough dear friends at a young age to know that too well. I live life for now, whilst putting a bit away. I am sort of horrified and envious in equal measure of people who plough everything into some future retirement as if it is a certainty.

Women take part-time jobs below their skill level simply to get the flexibility. "The concentration of part-time work outside of high-level jobs may increase the tendency for women to work in occupations below their skill level." (IPPR again)

YES this is me! I have a mix of jobs & own business - all flexible, all low paid, most below my skill level & some would be too tiring to do when old. A big part of the reason I decided retraining was possible is because my chosen career (speech and language therapy) often has part time, flexible roles (probably because it’s an over 90% female profession) & it would be an opportunity to be paid a vaguely sensible wage for part time work. (A lot of my peers from university are on well over 6 figures so it will still be below expected earnings I guess, but I wouldn’t be able to do the 6 figure jobs with my caring responsibilities)

MagnaWiles your post is brilliant, thank you. Says everything, and I recognise SO MUCH in it as it has applied to me!