Does labeling of Vegetarian/Vegan/Pescatarian put us all off eating less meat?

[speakout]

Do we really need these labels? I am an omnivore. I eat very little meat or dairy.
I understand there are many reasons for avoiding animal products in our diet, health and cost are some, but I wonder if by applying such strict definitions of ourselves it is actually counter productive.
I have seen vegans slated because they have polished off a bowl of ice cream, vegetarians who have fallen off the wagon and eaten a kebab, does all that really matter?

I know for some there is a moral issue- which is open for debate, but possibly a huge number like me prefer to eat mostly a plant based diet, but if I find a bit of lamb in my cassoulet or my corn on the con has been cooked on the same bit of BBQ as a steak it;s no big deal.
I guess I am questioning the whole religious zeal of vegetarianism, and also how many vegetarians choose their diet based on "moral" grounds.

I think if you go to someone's home you should eat whatever they serve you.

Does that extend to eating meat if you’re a vegan? What about food you don’t like?

Labels are helpful because people (generally) understand if you’re vegetarian you won’t eat roast beef for lunch. People who refer to themselves as vegan/vegetarian when they’re not make it much more difficult for those of us that are.

I think you should eat what your host serves you, after the host has had the good sense to check you can eat what they plan to serve you.

That must have been annoying as you'd been to so much trouble for her. Then for her to seemingly throw it in your face with not only dairy but gelatin!

OK, so this thread is really about having a go at vegans & vegetarians? Why does it always have to go this way?

I have been vegetarian for over 30 years, most of my family are (some are vegans) so for us it is just the normal way to eat. Sadly, I have to 'label' myself on occasion so people know don't eat meat - no biggie these days, one would think?

But no, certain people just can't let it go. On and on about - how long? Why? do you wear leather/ keep pets etc etc. All things I've been asked and answered a lot over 30 years, believe me, so mega dull conversation for me, but I am always polite. But the galling thing is I just know that the boor who has been drilling me about my life choices will then go on and on about bacon sandwiches and steak (yawn). Then for their finale, claim that vegetarians never shut about about their life choices!!!! Aaaarg - I don't want to discuss my vegetarianism but some people just cannot. let, it, go.

Navigator I don’t think it is in fairness. I think it’s having a go at people who describe themselves as Vegetarian/Vegan but are not. It’s in everyone’s interests to adopt a healthy lifestyle and reduce environmental impact and if cutting back on meat is a way to do that then great, but it doesn’t make someone a Vegan/Vegetarian. I admire the commitment of V’s, my son did it at 12 for 2 years and comments made/attempts to get him to inadvertently eat meat were pathetic. I actually think non V’s who challenge you are envious of your commitment so they snipe instead of expressing admiration.

I get where you're coming from OP. Ridiculous as it sounds to solve the problem by adding yet another lable, this debate is largely what prompted the lable flexitarian. People who take the piss out of it don't really know what it means and like to argue that it's just a case of eating different things on different days. What it's intended for though is someone who wants to be vegetarian but cant quite resist turkey on Christmas day, bacon butties on their birthday or whatever.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for someone to say they mainly follow a vegetarian or vegan diet. However, pescatarians calling themselves vegetarian really, really annoy me. The reason they annoy me is because the definition of vegetarian becomes confused and restaurants now think it's acceptable to offer fish as a vegetarian option. Fish is not vegetarian. A vegetarian eats no meat. Meat is the flesh of an animal. A fish is an animal.

So yeah, labels are important.

Agree that it should be each to their own, without preaching or interrogating others. What IS annoying is, as a PP here said (and seen similar on other threads) is when a guest labels themselves as vegan or vegetarian, which means considerable effort/time/expense for the non-veg host, then that guest goes on to help themselves to bacon/ice cream or whatever because they just fancy it ... I would be pretty pissed off if I were that host too.

The word Pescatarian was only invented in about 1992. We didn't have a separate word for (us) fish-eating vegetarians in the 1980s. I only know about "pescatarian" from MN. Yet MN spellcheck doesn't recognise pescatarian as a real word. It's still not widely used.

I guess the labels are starting points but they only mean I have to ask more questions to figure out what the label means to that person, and what do I need to do about it (if anything). These threads do seem to descend to people defining & defending their preferred labels and criticising others. Y A W N.

Urgh! I have had so many arguments with people who tell me I’m vegan because I’m a vegetarian who doesn’t eat fish. No. I’m a vegetarian. No need to add “who doesn’t eat fish” because vegetarians, by definition, don’t eat fish!!!!

Restaurants only offering one vegetarian option and it includes fish makes me beyond angry. Buffets that only offer vegetarian accompaniments also annoy me. A plate of plain rice, chips and some salad is not a meal!

I'm not keen on fish eaters calling themselves vegetarian, purely because it can cause confusion - as a vegetarian I've come across restaurant menus etc which have actually labelled seafood/fish dishes with a green V and advertised it as veggie. Sorry, but fish is NOT vegetarian. Obviously, I just don't order that dish, however given there's often not a lot of veggie choice on the menu to start with, I wish they'd offer something else in its place.

I can't see though why these labels could possibly 'put us all off eating less meat.' Why? What on earth should it matter to you if someone doesn't want to eat meat?

I think the OP would make more sense if suggesting instead of getting rid of ‘vegetarian’ and ‘vegan’ labels (which are very useful) making it also part of our everyday language to talk about having a more plant-based diet, or trying to. I’m not veggie, I eat fish occasionally, but I’d like to cut down on eggs and dairy since I’ve become more aware of the animal welfare issue and climate impact. No one has any problem understanding people trying to reduce calories with varying degrees of success. It shouldn’t really be any more complicated than that.

The term you are looking for is "Flexitarian", those that switch in and out of a purely plant based diet.

And for the record vegans generate Ire because no one should have to call the anti terrorism police to stay safe from activists.

The total fruit cakes give a bad name to the rest.

Oh, and I’ve never come across a restaurant serving a ‘vegetarian’ option with fish in, that’s crazy!

Oh and while I think everything is a choice I take objection with those that declare a vegan/veggie diet is better for the environment with zero knowledge of the actual impacts on biodiversity and sustainability of the population. It's almost a given that plant = good.

Flexitarian, local sourcing, eating in season etc. Is probably the most sustainable way to eat.

@PuffinsSitOnMuffins - Oh, and I’ve never come across a restaurant serving a ‘vegetarian’ option with fish in,

Unfortunately, it does happen quite a lot. Last time I encountered it was in November, in a bar that has received awards for its food! You will probably see less of it if you live in a cosmopolitan city. This was a small town.

But @SilverdaleGlen how much of a wanker would one sound when using the term "flexitarian"...

I guess people have different reasons for having a vegetarian or vegan diet- and that probably determines the "strictness".

I don't think the "rules" are clear cut- many vegans will use items that contain products from animals- tyres or electronics for instance.
Cross contamination will only be an issue for those that avoid animal products for moral reasons.
For instance a kosher kitchen will have different equipment and even sinks to prepare different types of food.

Those who are vegetarian for health, economic , environmental or other reasons are perhaps less fussy about eating a cob of corn that has been cooked on the same grill as a steak.

I don't get the agonising over this. Calling yourself veggie or vegan makes it easier for people to understand your food choices.

I've been veggie for nearly 50 years. That's my choice and I don't preach about it. If someone asks why then I'll tell them otherwise I keep shtum. I'm now moving more towards being vegan as it's a natural progression but I'm not militant about it. I'll choose a vegan option if there is one or settle for vegetarian if not.

If I go to someone's house I tell them I'm veggie in the same way I'd ask them if they have any food hates if I'm cooking for them. DH is a meat eater and could catch kill and prepare his own if necessary. But offal, bananas and mayonnaise make him retch so we'd let people know about that too.

I suspect that these labels are more for the vegans and vegetarians than the rest of us who want to eat our meat and 3 veg in peace

Well obviously?

I think its hilarious when people who eat dairy, eggs and meat/fish call vegans preachy and then start threads/debates on how vegans ram their views down peoples throats and preach to them.

In work, a cake was passed around for someones birthday. I politely declined. The girl who made it was pushing for me to have some so i had to tell her i was vegan. Cue a 30 minute lecture on protein deficiency and how humans are designed to eat meat (strangely, from very overweight unhealthy people...). So i would say the labels draw anger from meat eaters.

Maybe have a google of cognitive dissonance.

theymademejoin your point is confusing. You say that vegetarians eat no meat yet said it’s fine for people to say they follow a “mainly” vegetarian diet? What’s the other part of the diet made up of? My son is allergic to fish and tree nuts, I was surprised when I asked for the allegen menu for a vegetarian platter to rule out tree nuts, I found the veggie platter contained fish

I'm vegan, so are my husband and children. I see being vegan as someone who is doing it for ethical reasons, for the animals rather than someone who does it for health that would be plant based.

PorklessPie there are other reasons than health or ethical ones.

My son eats no dairy, he has never drunk any animal milk - even as a baby. He think it smells rank.

I was just saying what I view the 'label' vegan as meaning. Everyone sees things differently but to me vegan is about the animals