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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

...to report friend to hmrc

366 replies

HMRCorNot · 02/02/2018 16:02

I have name changed for this

Close friend has at least 3 rental properties in prime locations. She Has been receiving rental income for over 10 years. Amounting to 6 figures(incl any mortgage amounts) Never declared.

She is In highest tax bracket so will be selecting no in drop down box for rental income on tax return which starts blank and then has two options yes or no - so no excuse to “forget” or not know.

I am also landlord and high earner so no jealousy. I find it immoral and unfair let alone illegal. She is surprised I declare!

Would IBU to report?

Can this be traced to me?

Can’t get comfortable either way.

Scared of reporting but feel ill that she feels she should be exempt from paying.

Wwyd? Aibu?

OP posts:
Firesuit · 02/02/2018 18:01

The fact that there was no profit from the income is neither here nor there, you were carrying out a business and are obligated to declare as such to hmrc

Really? In general with HMRC you don't need to declare things on which no tax is owed. Also I think being a landlord is not regarded as a business, rental income gets declared separately from business profits. (I am not a landlord so just basing comments on my general knowledge.)

coffeeforone · 02/02/2018 18:02

It’s similar to if you had a situation where a very close friend/family member was self employed but often took cash in hand. You would disapprove, yes, but I think just hope someone else would report rather than turn against someone so close yourself.

WhatWouldLeslieKnopeDo · 02/02/2018 18:02

I'd like large corporations to pay their taxes too. But that doesn't make what this woman is allegedly doing any less illegal.

Kursk · 02/02/2018 18:08

RidingWindhorses

...to report friend to hmrc
veuveo · 02/02/2018 18:09

Being a landlord is not a business.
I really wish people wouldn't comment on things they know nothing about.

Original poster
HMRCorNot · 02/02/2018 18:11

Fraying I meant on her tax return she needs to declare dividends received..... and if a director of a company. She would need to pay tax on those dividends as it’s income and she is a high rate tax payer.

My information is as good as I am told by the person that tells me who in this case is this woman

The poster who said ....No she isn’t my bestie correct! but not a casual acquaintence either....

I question my moral high ground if I am happy to continue to be friends with her. And I commend throes that would not be friends.

Yes would report if she disposed of a body!

OP posts:
BMW6 · 02/02/2018 18:11

Tax avoiding cunts do not think they are above the law. They are obeying the laws re tax avoidance schemes. Morally questionable certainly, but not illegal at all.

MermaidHead · 02/02/2018 18:12

Come clean and tell her how you feel, she’s not a real friend because you despise her enough to fire her in to HMRC. Have a good look in the mirror and ask yourself this..”Who’s most dishonest? Her for not paying her tax or Me for pretending to be her friend and backstabbing her?

Original poster
HMRCorNot · 02/02/2018 18:14

HAHA I don’t despise her. I have never said that.

I think what she is doing is terribly unfair to all and especially as she is so fortunate.

OP posts:
Original poster
HMRCorNot · 02/02/2018 18:15

coffeeforone Your point about cash in hand has got me thinking.

Thank you.

OP posts:
LambMadras · 02/02/2018 18:15

If your income from property is more than 10k (before deductible expenses) then you must do a tax return and declare it. Even if you make no money after expenses YOU MUST DECLARE IT.
Whether it's classed as a business is frankly fucking irrelevant.
Not declaring property income is illegal.

ConciseandNice · 02/02/2018 18:17

She is stealing from the treasury - the money that keeps our country going and that is NOT right. I am a high rate tax payer, I get that some people resent paying taxes, but as far as I am concerned the money I pay is the responsibility I have to my country and the people I share it with. We all benefit from people paying their taxes.

Making a profit out of people's need for somewhere to live is pretty obscene in any case (landlord's living off rental income is something I abhor - get a job). Report her to the tax man. In fact one of my best friends is very high up in HMRC, let me know.

BMW6 · 02/02/2018 18:18

So mermaid head if a friend of yours bragged that they were robbing banks and getting away with it would you not contact the police?

harshbuttrue1980 · 02/02/2018 18:20

If you're going to do it, at least have the decency to tell her you've done it and take the consequences of that. If you sneak around pretending to be her friend and actually are trying to ruin her life, you are a cnut and have no moral high ground to stand on whatsoever.

roundaboutthetown · 02/02/2018 18:21

It's amazing how many people feel able to condemn others for tax evasion, but always seem to feel there is a reason to justify it for themselves or their friends. Even if there is a sliding scale on this in people's minds, with cash in hand, struggling and not very bright individuals at one end, and hugely wealthy multinationals and billionnaires with clever and expensive tax advisers on the other, a wealthy higher rate tax payer who is actively lying to hmrc in every tax return she fills out would most definitely not be at the bottom end of that scale!

Thiscantreallybehappening · 02/02/2018 18:22

harshbuttrue1980 she hasn't had the decency to pay her tax. Why would it ruin her life, she should have paid her tax.

Fraying · 02/02/2018 18:23

Being a landlord can be a business. There are numerous landlords who set up limited companies. They buy the properties through the companies; file annual returns and accounts and pay tax accordingly. As Directors they may take a salary or/and Dividends.
So veuveo you may want to take your own advice. Hmm
Whether or not she has a registered company is entirely the point because that's the only legal way she wouldn't be declaring income from property on a personal tax return.

Original poster
HMRCorNot · 02/02/2018 18:25

If you sneak around pretending to be her friend and actually are trying to ruin her life, you are a cnut and have no moral high ground to stand on whatsoever.

I am not TRYING to ruin her life. I asked what wwyd, wibu

I would only sneak because as we can see on this thread it’s not black and white and I think a lot of people would be Shock and angry at me for doing this

As for a cunt - I am sure we all are at times and yes now people are saying she could go to prison I agree it would be a cuntish thing. To do.

So prison really? I thought a fine and pay what you owe which is surely fair enough?

OP posts:
CuriousaboutSamphire · 02/02/2018 18:29

ohfortuna I know, but apparently they come up with a scary guesstimate figure, to try and make you respond with the real figures. At which point you get some fines and a revised figure.

And being a landlord is being in a business, whoever said it wasn't. That's why there is a lot of new government legislation and a specific HMRC return for rental monies. There have been a lot of changes recently... there are real moves towards 'professionalising' being a landlord.

veuveo · 02/02/2018 18:29

Of course lots of landlords are running a business, but it doesn't have to be a business, which is the comment I was responding to.

BossWitch · 02/02/2018 18:31

I really don't get this whole "if you report her you're a shit friend " attitude. I don't think being obliged to ignore immoral and illegal behaviour is a part of friendship, actually. And I wouldn't want to be friends with anyone who did.

Report, OP. If she's done nothing wrong, she'll be in the clear and have no worries about the tax man looking over her shoulder. If she gets hit with a fine and back payments, she's no one to blame but herself.

WetWipeofWonder · 02/02/2018 18:31

Well if you want to truly do the right thing then tell HMRC and tell her it was you who did it or you're just as dishonest as her.

MermaidHead · 02/02/2018 18:31

LOL! BMW6..I wouldn’t have a friend who robbed banks (never mind bragged about it)..in the unlikely case that it did happen I would have no hesitation whatsoever in telling them that they were no longer my friend/ a scumbag and reporting them to the Police. The point I was trying to make is the OP should be honest and tell her “friend” what she really thinks about her tax avoidance and cease to be friends with her. Then everyone knows exactly where they stand.

user1486076969 · 02/02/2018 18:32

Report, no question whatsoever!

Begrateful · 02/02/2018 18:32

MermaidHead, I don't think that OP despise her otherwise she would've immediately reported her. OP is caught between a rock and a hard place and is seeking advice here in terms of what to do.

IMO its unfair that OP is doing the right thing by declaring tax whilst her friend who is already well-off should cheat the system.

Boasting about things like this to others will lead to being reported. She should have thought about this before opening her mouth and now will have to eat the consequences.

I hope she enjoys the taste of justice!Grin