to think that lowering the voting age to 16 is a stupid idea?

[CrystalTipsandAlista1r]

in fact, I'd rather it was raised to 25.

They can have a firearms licence at age 14, so can be trusted to keep and shoot a rifle but not to vote.

Indeed. I really don't understand why people are so afraid of giving young people suffrage.

Under 35s can only claim housing benefit at a reduced rate.

Maybe we should weight their votes to reflect this?

And remove the vote from anyone who isn't paying income tax while we're at it.

Maybe take things a bit further and only allow net contributors to vote. That would turn out well, I'm sure.

Not afraid as long as they pay tax .

What about low earners who don't pay tax, gussy ?

If you are an adult of working age you are liable for tax. If you don't earn enough you don't pay. No problem with that but the liability if you hit the limit is still there.
No representation without taxation.

@iBiscuit I'm a sahm should I not be allowed to vote?

As I have said several times - it is not about whether you have enough income to pay. It's about whether you would pay tax if you earned enough. There's a difference.

Apologies @iBiscuit I didn't realise you were quoting @gussyfinknottle

Gussy - my total benefits (disability) don't come anywhere near income tax, so no vote for me then.

By the logic of some, no you shouldn't be able to vote Kaytee

gussy if a 16yo earns enough, they pay tax and NI. Hence they receive their NI number shortly before their 16th birthday.

"No representation without taxation" is dangerous nonsense.

Again. It is not about low earners who don't hit the tax threshold.
It's about being liable IF you were to hit the threshold.
Children up to 18 are not liable but not because they don't earn enough. If I am wrong and 16 year olds can be liable for income tax, I would say they should be allowed to vote.

No worries, Kaytee

gussy they absolutely are liable.

A letter from the HMRC (I think!) with their NI number arrives a few months before their 16th, followed by another to whoever claims child benefit requiring you to tell them if they'll be staying in education/training. Child benefit stops if they're in employment.

Fair enough. Then no taxation without representation, then. Unless that's "dangerous nonsense "

16 yr olds are liable for tax - even if they don’t earn over the personal allowance, if they have more than one job and don’t split their tax code then they pay tax on their second job.

I am happy for the vote at 16, but not for a person legally being an adult then.

I don't have a great opinion on a 16 year old voting. My 12 year old would probably be a more informed voter than some 20 year olds I know. It depends on the person.

What I do think is we need to pick an age of majority and stick to it across the board.

I can't keep up with the different ages that make you an adult in some respects. What I do know is it doesn't seem to work in a person favour.

iBiscuit

There's far more regulation around firearms than simply saying under 14's can hold a licence. It's not that simple.

LifeBeginsAtGin

It was me that pointed out that a firearms certificate can be granted to a 14 year old. Obviously it’s not as straightforward as anyone just applying and getting one, but I was using it as an example that people under the age of 18 can be responsible (as opposed to those that seem to think that under 18s shouldn’t even be allowed near a blunt bread knife).

They either have full adult capacity or they don't.

That's not really how capacity works. It's situation specific, meaning a person can have the capacity to make some decisions but not others.

If the right to vote was based on our capacity to consume and analyse the information present in an election campaign I would imagine many adults would lose their vote! Most (if not all) of us muddle through with a best guess, and we're allowed to do that because it's paramount that we have representation in the society we are part of. While it's not black and white, that principal certainly extends to 16 year olds to at least some extent, considering the responsibilities they can take on.

"Graph, 16 year olds in Scotland can vote in council and Scottish Parliament elections, just not Westminster ones." I know but Westminster happy to take their money 🤔

"Do we really want MPs in school canvasing Year 11's, do we want teachers political views influencing students, do we really want to open up politics to the bullying in the school playground and swayed by the latest meme circulated in the school toilets."

A that doesn't happen here in Scotland

B I don't see that as any worse than the supposedly better behaved adults who take their political education from 'the sun' and Nigel farage!

"The cigarette purchasing age - raised to 18
The change in law about sunbed use - raised to 18
The age at which you can leave education and work without continuing in training as well - raised to age 18
Fireworks purchasing age (including sparklers) - raised to 18..." Many of these changes have little to do with actual age more to do with a general move to prevent new generations developing habits which are harmful and cost the state money in the long term.

Many of us believe the reason for raising the age of leaving school/training to 18 is to manipulate unemployment figures.

If you are not mature enough to legally watch a film like 'Trainspotting' then you are not mature enough to legally vote.

Yes, the Trainspotting test!

A bit freaked by a film? Hand over your ballot paper, loser

I’m sure the book is freely available for all those under 18s not able to watch the film.