Trump. And my parents.

[Givemecoffeeplease]

Mentioned to my dad that if Trump comes to London as tentatively planned (still no date) that I’ll be there with all the protesters making it clear that I don’t want him here, and I don’t want his brand of politics anywhere in the world.

My dad questioned why I didn’t protest when Putin visited, or when the Saudi Royals visited (their country as I’m sure you know treats women appallingly).

I kind of see his point. We should protest every ruling class, politician and individual who wields such power and refuses to see the importance of equality (not to mention all other of their flaws). However there is something about Trump (the pussy grabber) that really gets to me. What should I have said to justify my position? Why should I protest against him and not Putin? What is it about his particular misogynist traits that makes him more deserving of our bile than other despots and dictators? Thanks MN. I feel I let the side down not having a decent answer. I feel I’m missing something really obvious.

As far as I can see those other countries are inching forwards, (two steps forward, one step back). America is/was already in a good position, Trump want's to take it backwards. It's shocking to hear a US president speaking as he does, less so the other leaders.

As an aside, does anybody know anybody who voted remain who also support Trump? I was thinking about this earlier and everybody I have ever met who supports Trump also voted leave. Although most leave voters I know don't also support Trump.

I'd like to protest the way he's specifically asked Theresa May to ban protests and is pretending to everyone in the US, that we all love him. hmm

That is a valid reason to protest. Protest away.

Ken Dodd I don't know anyone who supports trump no matter how they voted here. But I don't know anyone who thinks a daft protest is a good idea no matter how they voted.

You sort of imagine that the Saudis, Chinese and Putin would ignore protests as some sort of failing of our security services. Trump seems like he'd take it personally :)

TBH I think it's a populist protest for the Twitter generation. Think of the ironic/comedy/meme mixed in with SWP financanced placards that will be on display.

But I agree with your parents and consistency is key, we sell arms to the Saudis, we buy oil from the Russia and China has a big hand in our infrastructure. The ties to these countries are still apparent and far more than worthy enough to consider a protest. These are actual authoritarian regimes.

Most of the protesters will be taking selfies just so they can say was there, its going to be cringe tastic.

Not that I think a protest will do anything but....

Places like Saudi Arabia, China and Russia react to power moves by governments, not protests by individuals. They have no respect or consideration for them. So an organized protest specifically against their dignitaries visiting is a wasted effort. Better to specifically target and protest the UK government for their business dealings with these countries and try and getting them to take a stronger stance in international dealings. This tactic is already working in regards to Saudi Arabia, they are actually pulling themselves slowly into the 19th century.

Individual civil protests against the US normally would not have any impact either. They're used to it. The worlds hated the US for a long time.

However Trump will take it personally. So that alone is good reason.

we buy oil from the Russia and China has a big hand in our infrastructure.

To be fair, those links will grow stronger as the US isolates itself and refuses to negotiate trade deals. Reports from Davos and other international conferences lately say the Chinese are quite happily picking up the US's slack and becoming the country to talk to.

It's not just a protest against Trump though, is it. It's also partly a protest against the tools in this government who proclaim that the UK is aligned with his values...and who will be increasingly reliant on making that happen in a post Brexit world. It's saying "no, we don't accept your lies, misogyny, racism, nationalism, misinformation and corruption of representative democracy should be welcomed in this country".

For obvious reasons, I'm sure Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees Mogg, Theresa May, Nigel Farage and their ilk will not be protesting that one little bit because they appear to be aligned to those "values" themselves.

I see it very much as a pro British values themed protest, motivated by the current slippery slope dynamics in this country. In my humble opinion, of course

PM May is happy to be hand held by Trump (ugh!). Protesting shows we are not so mindless as our PM.

The US, under the Trump Administration, is leading a disintegration of racial harmony, and gender and religious tolerance. He attacks the freedom of the press. The US has withdrawn from or belittled world organisations it once championed. He should never be welcomed, anywhere, and those laughing at people who choose to protest - that is, get off their arses! - should be bloody ashamed of themselves.

Trump being in charge of the USA doesn't automatically render the USA morally bankrupt. Whereas China, Russia and Saudi etc have society which are moral bankrupt. I know which one I would rather protest about.

Then again we align ourselves with the the eu which has counties in it who beat physically and rejected any quotient of genuine refuges during the crisis.. Patrolled thier border with vicious dogs....

Interesting that we didn't see this level of "calls to action" when Robert Mugabe, Nicolae Ceaușescu and others came - and they were full state visits

But then, there wasn't the the same level of silliness on Twatter and all the rest back then ...

Ha! Well if you think that trump is worse than putin then yes, you really do need to justify your position. I would imagine that your parents are just annoyed by childish fashion politics and reacted badly when you opened up about ascribing to them. I'm not a fan of trump, for the obvious reasons, but there are more important things to protest over. Trump may be sexist and stupid but it's not like he's a despot. A visit from trump is very much a first world problem.

So you’re happy for extremists and those who ignore terrorism, human rights and corruption etc to visit but Trump shouldn’t....... what a load of crap.

I can understand people who are motivated to protest about Trump's visit, but not as motivated about the others, because we have an explicitly close and allegedly friendly relationship with Trump that we don't have with Putin. (We sell Saudi Arabia awful weapons, but are quieter about that. I know plenty of people who do protest Saudi diplo visits.)

But your dad's argument is just basic whataboutery, Givemecoffee. Just because you don't do everything, that doesn't mean you are morally obliged to do nothing. Nor should you feel obliged to be even-handed towards all the dictators of the world, if you have a chance to get at one of them! Ask your dad if he thinks it's better to do one good thing or no good things, to try and make the world a bit better, if you somehow am unable or unwilling to do ALL the good things.

I just still can't get over the fact that Donald Trump is The President of the USA. I quite like him though.