Bit annoyed with school's lack of green thinking. AIBU?

[Butchmanda]

DS is in Year 6, brother left 2 years ago, so been associated with this school for quite some time. They have some really nice school trips. However, it's ALWAYS their policy to insist the kids bring food in disposable containers in plastic carrier bags. When lunch is done, everything is thrown away. (I've been on trips as a helper, and teachers provide a couple of bin liners and scoop up everything). Even food/drink not finished is chucked away, so no chance to save - for example - a piece of fruit or half bottle of water for the journey home.

I've always felt a very uneasy about this. I go to great lengths to reduce / reuse / recycle at home and so it makes me cringe to think of all this stuff going straight to landfill. (Maybe, depending on trip destination, there is chance to recycle the plastic bottles, but I somehow doubt it). If every child goes on a trip each half term, that's 6 trips a year x 7 years = 42 carrier bags etc to landfill in the course of primary school, per child. The school has 420 children. That's the school choosing to chuck 2,520 carrier bags a year.

Personally I think it's very crap! Especially when there is SO much in the news these days about the horrific effects plastic have on the environment and, particularly, on sealife.

Earlier this week my son had a trip. He decided he'd take a little backpack instead of a plastic bag, so that he wouldn't have to chuck stuff away. He's perfectly capable of being responsible for his belongings so I agreed. Apparently he was torn off a strip by his teacher for 'not doing as you were told' and made to put his lunch in a carrier bag which she provided (which he then had to bring home anyway, as his sandwich was in a Tupperware container).

I try to pick my battles and he's out of there soon, but I'm just annoyed - not for my son - but for their disregard for environmental issues. I really think it's about time they updated some of their habits.

I get that it might be a lot easier to just chuck stuff away instead of carrying it around all day, and there's less to leave behind on the train etc, but they always go on about being grown up and responsible, so these older kids can surely carry a small back pack. Before long they'll all be on buses and trains every morning commuting to secondary school.

Do other schools do this?

This is not what my school does, or any other school I've come across. It's not necessary and it's setting a bad example. I agree with you OP

YABVU. You might be into all this green stuff but it’s very unreasonable of you to try and force it on everyone else, especially an entire school.

Incy

I've also been on many many school trips, as have others on this thread. don't assume because your school can't manage it, that others can't.

fluffy
Because if my friends in primary are anything to go by 80% of kids manage just fine. Some put things down and leave them and their parents correctly say 'DC you shpuld have been careful' and then chalk it up to having kids and it's being part and parcel of it.
Then you have the few who if their child loses anything or scuffs their lunch box or the child doesn't seal their water bottle and it leaks whi rather than say 'not ideal but part of life' decide to be bloody awkward, blame staff, demand meetings over it. Some even start saying the trip money should come back to them because now they need a new lunch box.

So some schools/staff decide that it's really not worth ghe hassle and go for disposable lunch stuff

I'm honestly gobsmacked this is standard practice in a lot of schools.

Our school even from nursery (so before proper school even begins) encourages the children to be responsible for their own lunch boxes and all wrappers etc go home with the child to be recycled (in their lunch boxes).

I've been a parent volunteer and it's not a nightmare at all. You have your 4/5/6 depending on year children and just make sure they stick in a group and pack everything away. Worst case scenario is lunchboxes get mixed up but that can happen on school premises anyway.

Some parents complained about the wrapper and leftovers coming home in lunch boxes but as the school pointed out it's the easiest and more effective way to ensure waste is recycled properly rather than just going to landfill.

I do field trips with nursery kids (3 year olds). I expect them to pick up their backpacks including reusable lunchbags and stainless steel drinking bottles and carry them on and off a bus. I wouldn’t expect to leave any rubbish behind, especially on trips to wildlife areas etc.

I agree it's pathetic, especially in Juniors

My card is marked as the parent who refuses to purchase single use plastic water bottles. The DCs are fine with putting their stainless steel bottles in their pockets. No undue suffering was caused. If they lose them that's my look out.

DCs school have also started up a smoothie bar once a week. Each drink, they say proudly will come in a disposable plastic cup with lid and straw. The irony that they are trying to get eco-school status is not lost on me.

Thanks for your posts. I'm glad I'm not alone - it took a while to realise that. Thought I was in for a total flaming.

I realise teachers have a tough time but we all have a responsibility to reduce waste and teach the next generation to do the same. It's really sad that people think it's just an eccentricity to not want the school to bin 2000 plastic bags a year. I suspect the school hasn't thought about it much and they are doing what they've always done (there's a lot of that!). I imagine if they actually wanted to do something more green, they would realise it's do-able.

In school, those who have packed lunches bring every scrap of rubbish home, so I'm no stranger to a slightly messy / crumby lunch box. Give it wash, no problem. That's fine - I don't expect school to recycle / bin all those bits and pieces on site.

So I don't understand why they can't apply the same principle to the majority of trips. The irony is that they really care about their image / smartness when they're outside of school: regulation colour coat, regulation hat and gloves (only purchased from the school, otherwise they're confiscated), we have to buy regulation book bag/swim bag/PE bag. Kids look very smart and, well, uniform. Then they go on a school trip and flip/flop/flap with all these assorted carrier bags all the way to the station, all the way into London, on the tube, across town etc etc. The little ones are told to hold hands and walk in twos, which then means they only have one hand free for flip/flop/flap bag, escalators, stairs, getting on trains, scratching their nose and if an adult wants to hold their hand across the road, or help them onto a train, you have to hold the bag as well. All this would be solved with a back pack. I get the point about not eating on the journey - fair enough - but I think access to a bottle of water, especially on a warm day / on a stuffy train - on the way home is sensible.

I've been on trips as a helper. The maximum number of kids anyone has is 6. I'm quite capable of counting 6 kids and their bags/coats. I've been on music trips with kids on trains with instruments, and nobody's left anything behind (which is more than can be said of some adult professionals I know of). You just need to be vigilant but, also, teach the kids about responsibility. Like I do with my own (who have a million faults, but are good at looking after a bag each). Look back at the seat when you get up to check you haven't left anything behind / have a quick look under the table in the packed lunch area. etc.

Last time I went on a trip it was to the British Museum and I don't remember there being much in the way of segregated recycling and, in any case, time was moving on, it was noisy, kids were restless, so I can see the teachers wouldn't want to be sorting rubbish. But if it all went back into their containers, and into their backpacks, it would be fine.

I do find it quite hard to recycle in a lot of touristy places in London. I was by the Cutty Sark in Greenwich on Sunday and had a takeaway M&S salad. Nowhere to recycle so I took the cartoon home with me. When I looked into the general bin it was full of cardboard cups and plastic bottles. There used to be a fancy coffee concession in the Maritime Museum which was located right next to a display about the horrors of plastic in the sea. All drinks in this concession were served up in cardboard and plastic cups, pastries were cut with plastic knives, coffee stirred with plastic spoons. And then ALL chucked in the same bin. Clearly none of it for the recycling. So hypocritical.

The trip last week was to the Guardian offices - maybe they should have sent George Monbiot over to the education centre for a chat.

I remember school trips in 70s: back packs, water, and one of those crappy cagoules in case it rained.

I also taught early years in Italy in my 20s: we took 4-6 year olds skiing. Nobody lost anything. We had lunch, drinks, helmets, gloves, goggles etc etc

Anyway, I'm rambling. I see there's a thread current at the moment about reducing plastic so I'm off to read that.

While I'm (still) here, can anyone recommend a reusable water bottle that doesn't leak and doesn't cost the earth?

We've found the metal ones from Robert Dyas are probably best but still leak a bit.

It's an ongoing source of frustration ....

School sells a school logo one the rule being that that's the only type you can have, and I've had dozens over the years. they all fucking leak (sports top) and I've got fed up of soggy books. I haven't yet been pulled up on sending DS in with an illegal one. There's still time ...

klean kanteen all the way here

It is disgraceful. The children should I be taking their rubbish home.

YANBU. Year 6 kids perfectly capable of looking after their lunch and bringing it home. If something ends up lost, then so be it. only time I could see this actually being necessary is if they were for example going on a mega hike and had to carry as little stuff as possible.

Well it's just for trips and it probably saves them a lot of trouble. A lot of children will mess around/eat at inappropriate times/loose stuff. If they're really understaffed/have a lot of very misbehaved children it probably makes it much easier for them. Does seem like an awful lot of waste but then again I doubt that most of it wouldn't have landed in wastefill anyway. Plastic bags-most likely came from the shops and would get thrown out. Stuff that the lunch is actually in-a lot of it would be reused tubs from take always/butters etc that would be thrown away anyway or things like foil/sandwich bags that may have been used regardless. It's probably not as bad as it seems.

So I don't understand why they can't apply the same principle to the majority of trips. The irony is that they really care about their image / smartness when they're outside of school: regulation colour coat, regulation hat and gloves (only purchased from the school, otherwise they're confiscated), we have to buy regulation book bag/swim bag/PE bag. Kids look very smart and, well, uniform. Then they go on a school trip and flip/flop/flap with all these assorted carrier bags all the way to the station, all the way into London, on the tube, across town etc etc.
I was on a trip recently when a school group walked past ours swinging around their plastic carrier bags of lunch, and I overheard one of the children from my school say 'Oh look at those kids, they only have carrier bags, they don't even have proper bags, that's not a good school is it'. (I gather from this her parents have told her it's not the done thing to carry stuff around in a Tesco bag!)

A lot of children will mess around/eat at inappropriate times/loose stuff. EggsonHeads - how does having lunch in a carrier bag rather than a backpack stop them messing around or eating at inappropriate times? In my experience they are even more likely to mess around with a carrier bag - its something to swing around, drop, rather than a backpack which sits on your back. Why are they less likely to eat at the wrong time from a carrier bag than a backpack?

I can see both sides. All plastic and disposable is easier. But as long as parents accept that containers and bags may get lost then it would be worth a try.

But not if parents are expecting teachers to look for lost stuff.

Butchmanda - I am with you in that it's very frustrating when as a household we are trying to reduce plastic waste and recycle, but it seems to be large organisations like museums and schools that are lagging behind. We always take refillable water bottles out with us. At the British Museum recently and there was no-where to refill the water bottles - we were eventually directed to a different cafe where they had to take the bottles off us and refill them behind the counter. I refuse to pay money for mineral water when tap water is perfectly fine, and mineral water would put more plastic in the environment unnecessarily! (We had already bought lunch in the cafe so its not like we weren't spending money there).
I was at a school meeting recently and the parents and teachers raised with the catering manager why they don't recycle the plastic drinks bottles and food waste. (secondary school so the children are perfectly capable of putting waste in the right place). So I guess we all just have to keep asking and asking for this stuff to be done. It's really hypocritical to be educating children about environmental issues yet not taking some really simple actions, like using refillable water bottles or throwing away perfectly good carrier bags on school trips.

I've been going on approx 5 school trips a year for the past 8 years, and I've NEVER had any problems with children taking lunch in backpacks.

OP - I've resigned to myself to only getting school bags with a separate bottle holder.

I'm a teacher and have been on plenty of trips and have no idea what 'aggro' it saves. Children bring their lunchboxes as normal and bring their rubbish home. Where's the morning aggro? 'Right everybody back on the bus, make sure you have your bag and coat.' Teacher finds two bags when children have cleared area, holds them up at the top of the bus, done. Do people really think children are so incapable and not influenced by what they see adults doing?

British Museum - there are two staircases just inside the Great Court when you go in the main entrance. Go down there. There are lockers to leave your stuff, toilets, water, tables to have packed lunches and vending machines.

Yes that’s exactly where we were at first TefalTester123 and were told by the staff there weren’t any water fountains hence the traipsing round the cafes.

In year 6 I’d expect them to be more than capible of bringing their boxes back!

Paper bags? Lots of places offer you the chance to recycle there. I think this is another area teachers can't win at, although I'd expect more aggro from the group who don't want lunchboxes left behind so would plan things around them.

Teacher finds two bags when children have cleared area, holds them up at the top of the bus, done.

Possibly we teach different year groups. We'd have to allow half the day to reuniting lunch box / water bottle with child.

The OP is talking about year 6's.

I'd expect any NT in KS2 to be able to cope

(as an aside, what re we doing to our children to make them so helpless around daily living and self-care skills?)