To hate the "if young people gave up iphone and starbucks they could afford a house" attitude

[Creambun2]

Some people really do believe that young people giving up a mobile phone would lead to them being able to afford to buy a house?

The attitude from certain boomers that "I worked hard and had nothing so I could buy in my 20s" and then it is drilled down that they only needed a mortgage of 2/3 times their salary.

Sorry for the shit DM link but this article is simply written to reinforce these stupid views about young people: www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5321703/Woman-reveals-bought-home-20.html

So much unsaid in the article, like where she lived when saving £500 a month (at home rent free presumably), how she describes herself as debt free (really - mortgage paid off @ 21?) and how gasp she has also been to India etc. Lucky she lives in a place where flats are 120k.

Que the comments section being full of the typical baby boomer attitude of lazy youngsters.

treaclesoda how much are these people spending on those things a month?

There is a little bit of truth to it though. All the things we have nowadays like mobile phones, cars, cable tv, internet etc are all luxuries our parents/grandparents would have done without in order to save up for a mortgage. We are currently about to buy our first house and we were just talking today how lucky we are, when we are tightening our belts, we still have all the things the last few generations wouldn’t have dreamed of keeping in order to save up.

It basically comes down to the fact that the maths don’t add up now

The average salary is £27k, the average house price is £270k so a house is now 10x salary.
Banks will only lend up to 4x salary so £108k meaning that the average person will need to save a deposit of £162k all the while paying more in rent than they would for a mortgage (not everyone can live free with parents)
I’m pretty sure that over 5 years most people don’t spend £30k plus on Starbucks and phones!!!

Then even if they did manage to save by the time they do (5 or so years time) the house prices have risen even further and more deposit is needed.

Most people can afford to pay a mortgage. It’s the deposit that is the main factor in stopping people buying along with house prices rising rapidly due to the popularity of let to buy and foreign investors buying houses that they don’t even visit let alone live in.

They should look at your rent payment history and say if you have paid your rent for 5 or 10 years without a problem then you should be eligible for a 100% mortgage provided the repayments are not more than the rent you had been paying.

Except that, when buying your first home, you don't buy a home costing "average house price".

Looney 3 out of the 4 things you name didn't exist when my parents bought their first house. And they had a car - couldn't live without one in their rural area.
Internet costs what, £10 a month, and you are assumed to have it to work, job hunt, apply for benefits, pay bills, deal with solicitors, etc. It's not a luxury worth giving up for most ppl if it means you'll afford a deposit in 10 years 4 months rather than 10 years 2 months.

I also hate the "baby boomers all own their own house and have huge gold plated pensions and are terribly selfish sodding off on their multiple foreign holidays every year" attitude too. None of it is true, there are exaggerations and untruths on all sides.

Work hard, save hard, don't squander what money you have and decide on your priorities. That works for all of us.

Expat: YES! Someone on the other thread about this topic literally said "Well my parents didn't have iphones and ipads (40-50 years ago), didn't travel and eat out every day and managed to afford to buy their home in their 20s." Unless said posters parents were Dr Who's companions, of course they didn't!

Looneytunes - of course your (and my) parents and grandparents managed without mobiles, cable tv, and internet - they had to because they didn't fucking exist! However neither my parents (who were my age in the 80s/90s) nor my grandparents (in the 60s)did without equivalent "luxuries, like a car or hairdryer, or (for parents) colour tv.

Yes they made some sacrifices - when they married my grandparents lived with my great grandmother for several years, until they could afford to buy the house from her....um, in the same way that young people now make sacrifices by living at home in their twenties/thirties when they would much rather leave!

People talk about "spending £3 per day on costa coffees" - firstly, nobody I know does this. Ever. They might get one if they are out and about occasionally on a weekend but the vast majority of people don't buy coffees every single day. Secondly, yes my grandparents would have thought spending £3 on a coffee absolutely insane, something only a fool would do - but they would happily spend a good percentage of their wages on buying fags - whereas smoking is something very few people in their twenties or thirties do nowadays.

Ultimately, even on a 'good' salary, if you are already spending £800 p/m on rent or utilities, or £200 on essential travel costs, or £400 p/m on childcare, plus £100 p/m paying back a student loan (non-negotiable essentials) then no amount of saving a few £3 lattes, or saving £10 p/m on an older samsung rather than they newest version, or £29 easyjet flights to Europe twice a year, are going to add up to a £30k deposit in anything less than thirty years.

Anyone who owns their own home now did it with one or several of the following:
A) They have a partner
B) They were helped by their family (deposit and/or rent free living)
C) They bought 10 or more years ago when deposits and rents were much lower
D) Inheritance

treaclesoda how much are these people spending on those things a month?

Well probably not much on technology, but if you spend thousands per year on holidays (as a lot of people do) then it's definitely going to eat into deposit money. A lot of people view very far flung travel and a few city breaks per year as normal and what everyone does.

I don't necessarily blame them though, if I were younger and home ownership seemed like a distant dream I'd maybe do the same. But you need to be honest with yourself too, that there are certain sacrifices that you don't want to make. Which is fine, it's up to each individual.

C) They bought 10 or more years ago when deposits and rents were much lower

To add to that, 10 years ago banks were offering 120% mortgages with little interrogation, there is a reason why our banks got bailed out and it isn't just down to the american housing market.

You had TV shows on every channel telling you that you cannot go wrong with bricks and mortar and everyone just piled in not caring about pulling up a ladder behind them.

Many top economists like Krugman, who was vanuted as soon as the Tory coalition took power in 2010 was calling the housing bubble in 2005.

My mil says this. She left her kids with their father. Didn't pay nothing. Moved into someone else's house and lived rent free and worked 4 jobs. And now she thinks she is amazing because she owns lots of houses. Piss right off. I would be rich if I didn't have any bloody responsibilities but my rent alone is 700 quid.
I feel like screaming when she goes on about it.

That woman was in our local paper and came across as insufferably smug. Also saying about working every morning from 6.30am until 8.30am like it was a virtuous thing. But those are the hours many people going to college would be stuck in traffic in Bristol.

She went through all the social media comments batting back questions and disbelief. But her story doesn’t ring true somewhere.

Who buys an iPhone? Most people get them with a contract don't they?

And you pay the cost of that phone during the contract, it’s not free!

I'd really love to know what people with that attiude think I should cut back on.

I rent the cheapest flat I can find in London with a friend. Some people would definitely describe it as a shithole. We pay £460 each, utilities and council tax on top of that come to about another £80/90.

I don't have a car. I don't go on holiday. I hardly ever buy clothes. I don't buy lunch out every day as I'm mostly working at home so my shop is about £30 a week. I work from home so it's essential I have internet. I have an iPhone on contract, yes I could get a cheaper model and pay less but that would save me what, a few hundred quid a year, not gonna get me a house in London is it!

I could move out of London, but jobs in my hometown for example are scarce and my industry is for the most part based in London. Wages for the kind of jobs I could get with my skill set outside London would probably not exceed £25k (creative-ish industry). I actually stand to make more being self-employed. I don't see why I should sacrifice my social life and happiness, I don't really see the point of owning in another place where I've got no friends or prospects and would probably sit indoors being utterly miserable 24/7. But hey at least I'd own the house right!

slothface, I'm not saying it would save you millions, but I worked in London and lived in a cheap part of Kent. Two hour each way commute, (an hour of that on the train, the rest walking as I couldn't afford the tube!) but housing is very much cheaper.

And you pay the cost of that phone during the contract, it’s not free!

And to be fair, it is only recently that people have slowed down on the must have iphone etc.

Paying ~£800 for a phone is still paying ~£800 that is open in marketing itself as a luxury/fashion product.

The fact that you pay that amount and they still use you as the product is a contributing factor.

I could star in this article I bought a house at 19 (3 years ago) but, lived at home (not rent free) whilst saving for a deposit. It only cost £88,000 And we only had a 5% deposit.

Really wasn't that hard (And I've always had holidays and a half decent phone)

Could i save for a deposit right now? (Have huge nursery fees) or if I was renting? Possibly but it would take me years!

Of course it's easy in the right circumstances.

We didn’t have central heating, a freezer, a car, a washing machine or a holiday, but obviously people have those these days, as well as mobile phones, internet etc, which are all essentials now.

We do own our own house and I am very grateful for that, but after bills there is very little money left, which is fair enough. I’ve helped out my children to get on the housing ladder, but it means that the savings we had are now gone. As long as we can keep warm, pay the bills and eat, that’ll do.

It’s true, in a way. From 15 I worked upwards of 20 hours a week waitressing and saved as much of my earnings and tips as possible. (Hourly rate: £2:50.)

Did GCSEs. Kept working. Started A levels. Paid for driving lessons and first car etc with savings. Moved out of home at 17 into a shared house. Still went to school, still working 30-40 hours a week on top, paying my way, still saving. Age 18 sat 4 A levels. Left school. Started work full time (grand old sum of £7500 per year). Age 19 bought first house - alone. Took second job to pay bills. Worked around 60 hours a week to make ends meet.

Definitely not met any teenagers with that approach to life in the last 15 years.

People talk about "spending £3 per day on costa coffees" - firstly, nobody I know does this. Ever. They might get one if they are out and about occasionally on a weekend but the vast majority of people don't buy coffees every single day.

Dunno, I buy at least 1 coffee a day and sometimes a tea as well. And sometimes breakfast in pret. Bet I spend £1k a year in pret. That’s like £2k gross salary. That’s quite a lot...

Right, that’s it. I’m going back onto my ‘take a thermos to work’ drive again.

@fuzzy you do have a point that working in London doesn't have to mean living right in the centre of it, of course. My hometown is commutable to London in just over an hour and housing is cheaper, but I still don't think I could save enough of a deposit (and I HATE it there!) I'm not sure I'd get a mortgage as a self employed person anyway. I'm aware this sounds like I'm making excuses!

typical baby boomer attitude of lazy youngsters.

Typical Daily Mail divisive hype, OP.

Most of us BB have children in their 20s and 30s. We are involved with our families and understand the problems younger people are having. We worry about their futures and the future prosperity of the country.

The DM and its ilk are trying to divide young and old. The majority of 'older people' are not self-satisfied arrogant gits, but thinking, sympathetic members of extended families and communities.

I did actually look into how much it would cost me to live at home and commute to London as and when I need to. A monthly season ticket is more than my monthly rent by quite a considerable amount so not sure it would even be economically viable to do that

titty how much was your house and how much had you saved for a deposit? If you knew it was literally impossible to do that until you'd done that for an additional 10 years would you still have done it so relentlessly or do you think you might have splashed out on a TV or microwave or a ferry trip to France before you turned 30?

Not trying to be goady (honestly) just that wage/house price ratios are drastically different. Most people I know worked and did 3-4 A-levels, didn't move out so were saving money then, and then worked at least full-time in one job.

The problem with moving to a cheaper part of the country and commuting into London is the cost of transportation can wipe out any savings in housing costs. A relative recently moved to a new house and has to pay £7000 a year commuting to work.