AIBU - Should people 60+ be means tested & pay for prescriptions

[monopoly5]

Considering the NHS is so stretched as are lots of other public services should free prescriptions for the over 60s be means tested?

I agree that the NHS is mismanaged but there is still no money. The tax paying population is shrinking & wealth is increasingly held by the older generations.

Yes there is the argument that people have paid their taxes so are entitled but I don’t believe a 20 year old of today will have any state pension/NHS available to them.

In an ideal world the 1% would be taxed more but can’t see that happening. Don’t we all need to chip in?

Yes, we should pay more. However this should be done through taxation. It is the fairest way to pay. Otherwise the sick are being penalised just for being sick.

I really wish people would stop treating the NHS as a hopeless cause. It is fantastic. In other countries illness can practically bankrupt people. I have been undergoing cancer treatment. I dread to think what that costs. I just know I couldn't afford it.

The trouble is, it was New Labour who introduced private provision to NHS, and introduced the enormous ongoing PFI costs.
New Labour increased it. Stephen Dorrell introduced it in 1996.

I'll concede that Labour have done their share to mess up healthcare. (Dentistry, for a start). But the morale of doctors and nurses has only really broken down in recent years. The first junior doctors strike in NHS history as management unilaterally imposed new contracts. Student applications for medicine stagnating or declining after over a decade of popularity.

The number of clinical staff in the NHS is still rising, but I don't feel unjustified in being pessimistic about that continuing with careers in healthcare looking less desirable and the UK turning against the immigration that has been a significant chunk of the increase. And the number of doctors per person in the UK is still low compared to most European countries - no wonder the one we have are overworked.

Sources on figures: www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/facts-and-stats/data-and-analysis/Pages/data-and-analysis.aspx www.nhsconfed.org/resources/key-statistics-on-the-nhs

www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/facts-and-stats/data-and-analysis/Pages/data-and-analysis.aspx

I do not know the best way to means test. Ideally all income & assets would be taken into account. Obviously if the cost of it outweighs any benefit that it’s not a solution.

However if it only raises 1billion I don’t think that should be a treated as nothing. It may be a drop in the ocean but lots of drops will make a difference.

Perhaps we should all pay a small fee like a PP suggested. Or have an opt out option.

Posters arguing that they have paid their contributions & are entitled to free prescriptions. Fair enough but why should “rich” young people pay more (tax) but not rich old people?

I do not know the best way to means test. Ideally all income & assets would be taken into account.

Taxation? Why do twice the work?

Older people are far more likely to need regular multiple items on prescription though so if they did pay it should be a small blanket fee rather than per item otherwise you are penalising people for bad health. My mumfor example needs 16 different items every month that’s over £100 she’s have to find each month because she has the misfortune to be ill.

Fair enough but why should “rich” young people pay more (tax) but not rich old people? Depends how you calculate it... but it probably has something to do with the potential to earn more. Young people work, have decades to earn more. Retired people usually have a finite pot, that gets smaller, year on year!

So you'd have to means test old people every tax year, to see if their pension pot was still 'too large'. But how you would calculate 'too large' I have no idea!

CuriousaboutSamphire

You are correct however today’s youth are never going to have the pensions & house price growth as experienced by some of the older generations.

Means testing usually costs more than it saves. Why free prescription age wasn't brought into line with state pension age is beyond me, too much to administer perhaps.

As far as pensioners not paying NI is concerned, think it through. Ni at 12% is deducted before tax, so that money isn't taxable. If you don't pay NI, everything you earn over personal allowance is taxed at 20%. It's not such a great deal when you look at it that way.

There are many over 60s who could perfectly well afford to pay prescription charges. My husband, for one. He has a good pension and I work full time. He also gets a winter fuel allowance and a free bus pass that he doesn't need. I'm not convinced any of these is a good use of public money.

The points people are making about free paracetamol etc are interesting. A few years ago my father (then in his late 80s) had a review with his GP where they discussed his medication. The GP read out a list and Dad said, "and I also have an aspirin every day". The GP said he didn't. Dad repeated that he did. The GP repeated that he didn't, 'proving' it by showing him the list. Dad pointed out that it was perfectly possible to buy aspirin within a prescription and that he had been doing so for years. It didn't seem to occur to the GP that anyone would do that.

I do not know the best way to means test. Ideally all income & assets would be taken into account. Obviously if the cost of it outweighs any benefit that it’s not a solution

In the case of pensioners, surely it would be fairly straightforward to restrict free prescriptions to those who get Pension Credit?

Since that would already be in place it shouldn't involve too much more bureaucracy ...

All services (not hospital or schools) should be means tested.

He also gets a winter fuel allowance and a free bus pass that he doesn't need. I'm not convinced any of these is a good use of public money.

I was under the impression that retired people now have more disposable income than working people so I agree with you that certain people don’t need the freebies.

What did Stephen Dorrell introduce?

The flagship policy was all Blair/Brown/Milburn, because the 1996 proposals weren't actually enacted until the 2000 reforms. Or was it that they were enacted 1996, abolished 1997, reintroduced 2000?

Agreed - that's a fair swop.

I think we need a 'Patriotic Fund' and make it de rigueur for pensioners who do not need their winter fuel allowance to donate it to the Government to defray the costs of setting up an adequate social care system. Hard, but not impossible, to sell the idea!

Ignore my last, it came out on the wrong page.

I think we need a 'Patriotic Fund' and make it de rigueur for pensioners who do not need their winter fuel allowance to donate it to the Government to defray the costs of setting up an adequate social care system. Hard, but not impossible, to sell the idea!

You'd think so, wouldn't you? But considering the wailing and gnashing of teeth when it was suggested before the last election that pensioners should use some of their assets for care, I wouldn't be too confident

Just like everyone else, some pensioners can be very, very selfish

Pension credit actually has a really low cut off point you really have to be on the bones of your arse to get it. There a lots of pensioners that don’t qualify for pension credit who would really struggle to pay for several prescriptions a month.

I think a campaign to ask pensioners who do not need it to donate their heating allowance is a great idea. I know my parents do need it.

monopoly Pensioners who own their own homes have more disposable income when compared to people paying a mortgage. It is different for those who pay rent. Not surprising when for most working people mortgage takes up a significant part of their income. They do actually have on average much less income.

And nobody needs to claim or use the bus pass. You have to actually claim it.

And pensioners still pay tax if their income is above a certain amount.

Well yes obviously there are poor old people & rich older people. Not every old person owns their own home.

Puzzledandpissedoff for a single pensioner PC is only 20p LESS a week than the new state pension rates which you now have to have contributed for 35 years to qualify for, are you really suggesting that someone who has 20p more a week because they paid into the system should have to pay whilst someone who paid in less gets all the help they need because they are on PC

Yeah I am pissed off about the new state pension rules. I have worked since 16 and will get less state pension than someone who has never worked.