To think these baby boomers are missing the point?

[Hundredacrewoods]

I grew up in an area where house prices have quadrupled since 2000. I consider this an intergenerational equity issue. Whenever the topic of house prices and 'millennials' comes up with my parents' generation, all I hear is how hard they worked and how much they sacrificed to get on the property ladder. AIBU to think that they're missing the point? No one is denying that they worked hard and sacrificed. The point is that if they worked just as hard today, and made the same sacrifices, it wouldn't be anywhere near enough.

A 3 bed house is not a starter home.

maisy Phew!

spiky I just thought you might like to acknowledge why there were so many jobs for so many years, post war. And then precisely what post war living conditions were like, food rationing, furniture rationing, housing issues, etc, etc. Unless of course your family lived in a country that was not involved in WWII. I cannot imagine why anyone would claim the first post war generation had no problems!

Let's face it, lots of people are cheering themselves up with a Starbucks as they realise they'll never get on the property ladder.

While boomers are always happy to ramble on about 15% interest rates like grandpa Simpson, they always conveniently omit to mention MIRAS that no longer exists and means 15% back then is not comparable to 15% now (even if you ignore the astronomical real-terms price increases, which of course boomers frequently do as well).

Anyone paying a mortgage in 1980 care to comment on what rate they were paying on their loan back then?

When we bought our house in 1978 the bank base rate was 6.5% and our mortgage rate was about 3 percentage points above that. In late 1979 the base rate reached 17%.

Here's a link to the statistics

Waah !! I hate you!! You're old!! I don't have a time machine!!

As no one is prepared to pay more or reduce our population ( not possible) we are getting what we deserve.

I'm finding all the generalising on this thread really annoying! I'm a late boomer and bought my first flat, in my 30s, with DP in South London in 1996. It was perfectly affordable on two wages and lots of people in their 20s were also buying at that time - so not just BBs were able to afford to buy houses.

None of my BB friends voted for Brexit. They mostly have DC in their 20s and are acutely aware of how difficult it is to get on the housing ladder.

Equally, my nephew and niece have both bought houses (in Essex) recently with their partners. They were lucky and had help from parents for a deposit, but also saved hard and worked hard to afford it.

It's simplistic and lazy to assume that all BBs are selfish and have ruined things for the young, and ditto to assume that all young people are spoilt and entitled.

London property prices though, are something else. That first 1 bedroom flat sold last year for just shy of half a million quid - we could get a 5 bedroom period property for that where we are now ....

While boomers are always happy to ramble on about 15% interest rates like grandpa Simpson, they always conveniently omit to mention MIRAS that no longer exists and means 15% back then is not comparable to 15% now (even if you ignore the astronomical real-terms price increases, which of course boomers frequently do as well).

Yeah. Thank fuck loads of those 'ramblers' didn't lose their homes.

It was a really shit time for so many families.

The more I read on this thread, the more I hear whinge, whinge, whinge.

76%, bloody hell. Did you buy on your own or was that bought with a partner & another household income?

So bit of math... London (since we're talking London), median salary is (rounded up by £500) £35k. Therefore takehome is £2400. 76% = 1824. Leaving £576 for all other expenses each month.

At modern interest rate of 4% (is that pretty average now?), £1824 is what you'd pay on a mortgage of £345,000 (25 yr term).

MIRAS [Hollow laugh]

The same newspapers that today scream "Immigrants" and "Baby Boomers" screamed about MIRAS... many people made really stupid decisions based on it, adding to the horror of the crash! Another thing to blame on Thatcher / Lawson!

It is the same with any 'credit' the government gives... at some point, when everyone is used to it being there it will be taken away, causing screams of anguish, real hardship and a huge shift in how we live. Family Tax Credits seem to be heading that way... sadly!

Every generation has it hardships, and its opportunities. Totally agree with this - and there is no point harping back to the perceived 'easy life' of those who've gone before. Easier in some ways but not others.

In the past you could not get a mortgage based on 2 salaries. Banks worked on the assumption the women was going to have kids soon and stay at home, even if she had no intention of that.

Yes, that's true. Although when DH and I got our first mortgage, the lenders were prepared to offer us 2.5 times DH's salary and 1 times mine. The assumption was that in a couple of years, I would be giving up work in order to care for children - and that's exactly what happened. There was no other option. No nurseries, except one about 10 miles away that was specifically for the children of unmarried mothers. Married mothers were expected to look after their own children, there were very few options, unless you could afford a nanny or au pair. There were 2 child minders in our little town and neither had vacancies (and I couldn't have afforded them anyway).

Can somene please explain to me how it is impossible for someone aged around 28 to get a house with their partner, if they have an avg income of £35-45k per household and a good credit score? (Outside of London and the rip off areas) Or is it the fact they never saved any money for a deposit?

Everyone I know in that age group has got on the housing ladder quite easily. It might not be a 4/5 bedroom semi or detatched but they are in 3 bedroom properties with a garden in an ok area, and a mortgage of between £120k and £210k.

Low earners have always struggled and rented. This is not the fault of the previous generations.

I got on the ladder just over 11yrs ago when I was 20ish and in a moderately paid call centre job ffs.

Stop whinging and figure out how to earn more cash to save like the rest of us did. Jesus.

Curious I believe they were too young at the time for those things to be of issue to them. I agree they will have been for those slightly older than them. Both sets of grandparents moved from back to back housing with no bathrooms to new council housing shortly after the war.

YABU to assume that everyone of your parents generation is in the same situation and all sitting in mortgage free houses that are worth hundreds of thousands with massive private pensions. We aren't.

I live in Lincolnshire and you can buy a 3 bed semi here for less than £150k

Rightmove

76%, bloody hell. Did you buy on your own or was that bought with a partner & another household income?

that was alone - my first house (had traded up through flats with a friend) - so yes, after "bills" there was nothing left.

I was 3 months or a 0.5% rate rise away from handing in the keys. Luckily rates turned round and life got much easier.

... MIRAS was only introduced in 1983. So only the youngest baby boomers (stopped being born in 1964) would have much benefited.

I can't find a calculator to easily offset for MIRAS. It made mortgage interest payments into non-taxable income as I understand. I think in my hypothetical example (£345k mortgage), MIRAS would make a £2580 savings in the first year of mortgage repayment.

Great... but only 1.3x amount of a single mortgage payment pear year. That's the maximum benefit, since interest part goes down & capital part of the payment goes up, as each year passes.

If you calculate it out annually for the hypothetical person on median London income, MIRAS would reduce the 76% of take home pay (on mortgage) to 69.7%... (call it £1672 payment per month in modern equivalent). So in a situation without MIRAS (to make that modern situation equivalant to 76% of income with MIRAS) we're looking at a mortgage of (25 yrs, 4%) £317,000.

I too remember mortgage rates of 15% and massive unemployment. inflation was over 20% in the 70's. Every generation has had their own problems. House prices are not currently unaffordable in every part of the country.

No, it's so ridiculous now to be able to afford a house yanbu. Working class people could buy a house in London suburbs in the 80s or possibly 90s.

Flipperflip
I remember those times of soaring house prices and soaring interest rates. It was really scary for everyone. I was far too young to have bought a house back then. And I honestly also believed that I would never buy a house. Then came the late 80’s recession. With massive house prices slashes.

Your post about MIRAS has a really nasty undertone. Did you read a pp saying 67% of their income was spent on mortgage payments? I don’t think it is possible to even comprehend that. I don’t remember young people being so horrible about older people. There was a distaste or rather jealousy for the yuppies and Sloane rangers.

Mostly we were just plain scared from the start of the double figures interest rates to the almost halving of house price values. As pps have said, we’ve all lived through difficult times.

Economic models I looked at maybe a year ago suggested the next dip in house prices will be around 2025. Idk if this will be affected by the train smash that is Brexit. I don’t doubt that house prices will drop and drop significantly at some point in the next decade.

The idea that young people can either save to buy or just swan through their lives with loads of holidays and new cars and regular takeaways is just ignorant. Rising property prices and stagnant wages means that housing costs are still a massive chunk of income, and it’s very hard to save to buy on top of that.

In my 20s (in the 2000s) I had no car, no foreign holidays (shared a caravan in a northern seaside resort with friends every few years), worked all the hours I could get cobbling together part-time jobs. Had already clocked that the degree choice I picked at 17 wasn’t going to lead to decent employment so was studying part-time for another qualification. Lived in a series of grotty flats (like, black mould and huge pieces of damp plaster falling off the ceiling in the communal hallway). Then every time I saved anything it went on covering the costs of moving or rent increases.

There are plenty of 20-something’s living like that today. Some of them like me will be lucky enough to get more secure housing at some point, others won’t. But it certainly isn’t because they’re not prepared to scrimp and save!

You have to factor in that schools and the work place expect parents / work colleagues to have the internet and their own PC - libraries do have internet connections and are free to use, but a lot are in towns and many are closing down and not always accessible.
even if your on your bones of your bum, people have to own a mobile phone ( to look for work, to be in touch, etc etc) its all become a necessity rather than a luxury ( just my opinion, but i dont think you can get very far these days without some kind of technology , to claim any kind of benefits you have to go 'online' for example) - this is all hidden costs that were simply not around when I was young. I have been really hard up in the past, had second hand furniture for years , didnt go on nights out at all, etc etc, but it all doesnt mean that i dont also have empathy for the young today who have it much worse ( i think they do anyway) we have it a bit better now but i am also aware that it can go pear shaped very quickly and never smug. Its the smug ' im alright jack' ones that i despise - know plenty of those ( unfortunately). a lot of people cant see further than their own noses.

There are plenty of 20-something’s living like that today I think that is the general lot of 20-somethings whatever generation they are from!

Which is what makes all the inter-generational screeching pointless. You just get what the time you are born into gives you. Your best bet, whoever, wherever, whenever you are, for a happy life is to focus on what you do have!

I bought a house in London in my twenties. I guess some would accuse me of being lucky. My luck was created by:

-moving 100's of miles away from my home town and family (bad unemployment)
-living in flat shares with 5+ strangers
-no holidays other than a few days in a tent
-ran the cheapest 10yr + old car I could
-worked in deepest darkest Siberia to make some more cash
-moved into a wreck of a house and spent years doing it up

Some people make their own luck! If you're going on your foreign holidays, drinking your expensive coffees, eating out, takeaways, etc then complaining about not affording a deposit, more fool you!