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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to tell my mum to find her own racist knitting patterns

201 replies

gamerwidow · 26/01/2018 16:21

I am currently embroiled in a disagreement with my Mum because she wants me to find her a knitting pattern for a golliwog.
I have tried unsuccessfully to explain that this not the innocent toy she thinks it is and have told her that I am staggered that she thinks it is anything but racist. She is only 70, she should know better.
She is now in a massive sulk.
Am I right or should i just have let her have her knitting pattern?

OP posts:
BashStreetKid · 27/01/2018 06:55

She said that yes there had been several black visitors and NOT ONE had been remotely bothered about the doll.

How would a room steward know whether they were bothered about it? It's pretty unlikely that if they were they would complain to the room steward - if you know anything about how the National Trust works you would know that they are volunteers who have nothing to do with management of the property.

BertrandRussell · 27/01/2018 06:59

"I regard being called professionally offended as a compliment

Then consider yourself complimented in the very highest degree."

Thank you. Consider yourself the lowest form of scoundrel.

BashStreetKid · 27/01/2018 07:04

I would hope my hand would wither before I refused my 70-year old mother a simple request that does no harm to anyone.

Is it really beyond your comprehension to realise that if you have grown up the target of racist bullying including repeated abuse around the word golliwog and its most notorious shortening, you might indeed be harmed by the memories triggered by seeing one?

Marymaymay · 27/01/2018 07:16

Virginia

You do a very good impression of someone who thrives on outraged sanctimony.

The whole PC argument tends to be used by people who aren’t bright enough to understand others points of view. Snowflake blah blah blah.

Boring.

c75kp0r · 27/01/2018 07:33

Presumably the national trust golliwog is there as part of a recreation of a room of the era - so would be valid as a portrayal of the past, warts and all and different from selling one in the gift shop for example?

BertrandRussell · 27/01/2018 07:51

I am alaways fascinated by how many people seem to have had gollywogs as their absolute favourite bestest toy as children and still have such happy nostalgic memories of them. It's almost as if they are some sort of metaphor....

HulaMelody · 27/01/2018 08:17

@BertrandRussell like “...but...but some of my favourite toys were black, I can’t be racist!!”

The issue is why the rest of the residents are in favour of this and asked for it! It’s 2018, it’s like some people choose to be ignorant of issues.

And as for the black visitors/residents being ok with it - how do they know for sure??!

JacquesHammer · 27/01/2018 08:29

Well OP, here's hoping you spend your 70s being reviled by your kids because a new sanctimonious generation has judged your harmless hobbies to no longer be acceptable

What do you think the OP did? Wrested the knitting needles from her mother and snapped them over her knee?!

Or rather simply said she wouldn’t find ONE pattern. Which is hardly deeming the whole hobby unacceptable.

I would assist a parent to create racist products either.

Dipitydoda · 27/01/2018 08:32

At 70 she is indeed from a generation where no one would have thought twice about giving one to their child. My mums the same age and my brother had one. They were generally seen as an acceptable boys doll. As a doll depicting a nice character in a book, I have never see. The issue with them, as an overweight person I was never offended by sad sack in Raghu dolls. Prob worth just saying to your mum people are over sensitive about these things these days. Maybe help her find 2patterns, one for herself and a less contentious one for the raffle

BertrandRussell · 27/01/2018 08:35

"At 70 she is indeed from a generation where no one would have thought twice about giving one to their child."
That really is utter, utter bollocks.

JacquesHammer · 27/01/2018 08:35

At 70 she is indeed from a generation where no one would have thought twice about giving one to their child

Absolute nonsense. My parents are mid 60s and know they’re racist. My grandma who would have been 95 knew they were racist.

BIWI · 27/01/2018 08:35

At 70 she is indeed from a generation where no one would have thought twice about giving one to their child.

That may very well be true. But in this day and age we do - or at least we should - be thinking twice, shouldn't we?

BertrandRussell · 27/01/2018 08:39

And what BIWI said. If for whatever reason you don't realise that something you say or do is offensive and someone points it out you, the proper response is "Oh, I am sorry- I won't do it any more"

Original poster
gamerwidow · 27/01/2018 08:41

To be clear I find her knitting patterns all the time she is a very prolific and accomplished knitter and she has knitted some beautiful toys for the other residents which is why the golliwog request was made to her. I don’t want to stop her knitting I just don’t want her to knit this!
We have sat down and read some stories the internet now and she realises that a golliwog isn’t just a black doll as she originally though but does cause real upset for some people. She is a kind person and she is upset that she might have caused offence but she’s also worried about what the other residents will say if she doesn’t knit it.
She is not going to knit the golliwog.
I dont think any of the other residents think they are racists but a lot do have a kind of UKIP PC gone mad mentality which I find a bit repellent and my mum can be a bit easily led now because she’s not as sharp as she was.

OP posts:
Dipitydoda · 27/01/2018 08:41

No Bert it’s not utter bollocks thanks, some 70 year olds might have changed their views over time depending on the exposure to different pressures but at a time when they had kids followings were not an issue, they might not have changed their view on an early toy adapted from a book (with what I understand to be a positive message) and hijacked by pressure groups.

BertrandRussell · 27/01/2018 09:01

So how did my mother-and many other people on here's parents- understand that gollywogs were racist in the 1960s and 1970s? People have always known about racism. The issue is how many of them denied it and how much they denied it.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 27/01/2018 09:18

Yep

My parents were certainly aware

And i have assumed my gran gave it to me but it may have been someone else which would explain why it disappeared quickly

Lizzie48 · 27/01/2018 09:23

I think it can depend on where you grew up. If you grew up sheltered from the impact of racism, you might not even think about it. So you really might not know that golliwogs have racist connotations. (I don't see how you can live to 70 years old and not learn that though.)

Golliwogs were popular toys when I was growing up, but we certainly never had one. I do remember hearing it used as an insult though.

Here's the thing, though. Once you realise the offence something causes, you apologise for that and learn the lesson. You don't argue why they're wrong to feel offended. Hmm

JacquesHammer · 27/01/2018 09:37

No Bert it’s not utter bollocks thanks

Of course it is. It would have been less nonsensical if you’d said “a generation where SOME wouldn’t have thought twice” but saying “no-one” is patently incorrect

Gilead · 27/01/2018 10:01

Dipity :people are over sensitive about these things these days.
No, they just don't like racists or racist golliwogs. Please read the history.
The being overweight argument is irrelevant, you can change that.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 27/01/2018 10:13

Absolutely right lizzie

grannytomine · 27/01/2018 10:14

I am alaways fascinated by how many people seem to have had gollywogs as their absolute favourite bestest toy as children and still have such happy nostalgic memories of them I've always thought, but have no scientific basis for, that it might be the bright colours. So many dolls and cuddly toys are pastel, the strong red, royal blue? (certainly not powder blue) and black might be attractive to babies. Adults seem to take it as given that pastel colours are cute but babies might not agree. It is strange as the plastic toys like sorting cups and blocks and cars etc are often primary colours.

grannytomine · 27/01/2018 10:18

So how did my mother-and many other people on here's parents- understand that gollywogs were racist in the 1960s and 1970s? In the 60s the Robertsons "look for the golly on the jar" advert was on TV regularly. I don't remember any issues about it in the 60s, by the 70s it was changing. So they might now view it as racist but I don't think many did in the 50s and 60s and that is when people in their 70s would have been given them. I was given one in the early 1950s when I was in hospital, this was when young children were visited once a week in hospital so a cuddly thing given by a loved one was important.

Marymaymay · 27/01/2018 15:34

Love it when someone compares being overweight to racism.

Argument immediately lost due to inability of person to actually understand the terms being used here.

BashStreetKid · 27/01/2018 20:30

Dipity, where do you get off claiming to know all about how every 70 year old viewed golliwogs when they were younger? Nor is it relevant if they have changed their views. The point is that it's really pretty patronising to suggest that anyone over 70 is a poor old dear who doesn't know any better. There are plenty of people currently in their 70s, 80s and 90s who wouldn't dream of having anything to do with golliwogs, because they're perfectly capable of working out for themselves why they aren't acceptable.