To have completely lost sight of what a normal clean and tidy house looks like?

[AnachronisticCorpse]

I’m a bit all or nothing with housework tbf. But I hate it being untidy, it really affects my MH.

I’ve realised recently that I have no barometer for normal with it. Some days even when it’s as tidy as can be I wince at the ‘clutter’. So often I’ll think it’s looking great and then someone will come round and all I will see is piles of clutter and mess, bits of missed dust, fluff on the carpet.

When I’m really mired in depression I tend to think that it’ll never be good enough anyway so why bother.

I know this stems from growing up in a Show Home house, my mum loves cleaning, she cites it as her hobby and there is never a thing out of place in her house. She used to be very scathing about the state of my homes over the years. I’ve mainly addressed this with her, but it’s left a mark.

So for example, right now, there are a few toys stacked in the front room and a bottle of calpol left out, Dh’s jumper is on the arm of this sofa, the cushions are awry on the other sofa and I have a coffee cup on the table. This would horrify my mum (although she’d keep it to herself these days).

I tend to hoover when it needs doing, same with mopping. I’m usually happy to have ‘stuff’ visible, there’s a bag of stuff for the charity shop by the front door for eg and a pile of board games in the back room. But when I’m stressed I look at that and all I can see is clutter and dirt.

I suppose what I’m asking is what people think is ‘normal’? Like, if you visited someone new, what would be the tipping point for you to think, ‘oof what a tip’ rather than ‘ooh what a nice house’?

If it’s relevant, my house is only four years old and all the furniture is modern, so I think it’s less forgiving than an older house with antiques.

Anyway, hit me with it. What’s your plimsoll line for ‘midden’?

As long as it is clean then clutter as you have just described is totally normal. Stop worrying about it.

There is a crucial distinction between clutter and filth IMO. I would never judge someone else's house for a bit of clutter, especially not if they have kids.

My judging kicks in at "clearly hasn't hoovered for weeks" and also at toilets which need a good scrub. I suppose there is a point at which I'd be reluctant to accept a cup of tea from a very dodgy kitchen although that tends to be more smell-based.

I am a serial housework avoider though so my standards are probably quite low.

What’s your plimsoll line for ‘midden’? might just have to enter my everyday vernacular. I don’t know what but it’s really tickled me.

I have never cleaned my doors or switches. My standard is pretty much: am I clean? Is DD? Can I open the front door to someone without betraying the hidden chaos of the rest of the house?

If someone visits I quickly shove things in cupboards and under the settee.

Total midden.

You all sound a bit OTT to me. It sounds obsessive, not normal. If I go round to someone's for a cup of tea I wouldn't think to look at whether there was any dust or mess. Which there never has been. But even if there was.....????

I'm cluttery and untidy. I have low motivation for housework as it is dull, repetitive and so quickly undone. I do like clean though.

With my closest friends, we're happy to see eachother in our natural habitats which are similar. Other people I will do more tidying for which involves more sorting of clutter. Then there's the In Law level of cleaning which involves replicating a show home. By the time that's achieved I'm exhausted from it, don't do much for a couple of days then realise it's a midden again.

Now gardening where the benefits last so much longer is another game altogether

I have a cleaning schedule.

Monday - bathrooms.
Tuesday - bedrooms, hall and stairs, kitchen. (My day off)
Wednesday - Thursday - Friday - living room and dining room when I get to them.

I work and the children have clubs etc hence the last two rooms getting 'fit in'. This is an ideal week but I have learnt to run on a 2 week schedule so that if something gets left out one week I start with it the next week. That way everything gets done once every two weeks worse case scenario.

Washing, ironing, washing up and keeping the kitchen clear happen every day.

I can't cope with clutter and clear surfaces make me feel on top of things. But I don't mind clutter in other people's houses at all. The only thing that would make me hate a person's house is dirt, not dust but outright filth...as in never cleaned like my neighbours house shudder.

"Normal" is different for everyone. You sound like you are struggling because you have internalised your mother's critical attitude towards housework. For some women an untidy home isn't just an untidy home - it's a sign of failure, and disreputability. The trouble comes when they try to insist that everyone else should adhere to the same standards that they have, that they are "right" and other women are "wrong". I think something similar could be said for those women who say they couldn't give a damn and they think women with tidy homes are boring.

You need to learn to turn that voice off and set your own standards, where you are happy. You don't have to live your life to your mother's rules!

I love this blog because she describes the way my brain works to a tee. Her podcasts are very funny and genuinely helpful when housework doesn’t come naturally, and half the time you don’t actually see the mess building.

I think your home should be as you want it to be. If you feel uncomfortable in it, then you need to make some changes. If you are happy, then enjoy it.

I never tidy for visitors, and I don't understand the concept. My house is as clean and tidy as can be for me to be comfortable. I couldn't care less what other people say. I am not making more effort for someone popping in than I would for my own family.

I do find it much easier to tidy everything straight away than dropping things somewhere, then having to pick up later. It's quicker to do it right in the first place.

If I am buying a house (when really it should be on show room mode), what makes me go "noooo" are: shoes everywhere in the hall, dirty bathroom, beds unmade, dirty and untidy kitchen - unless you are in the middle of cooking, there's no reason for having a pile of dirty dishes anywhere, laundry hanging on radiators.

I don't like clutter, but if my friends like to have pile of (clean) stuff, I couldn't care less.

If you haven't got enough storage for everything, then it will always be a mess, I think that's the secret.

I have no sense of normal for tidyness. Like you I have mh, and some days I really couldn't give a fuck what the place looks like. Other days I scrub the place to an inch of its life.
Some days there's clutter. Other days no clutter because I have chucked everything in the bin if it's out.

The few people I allow in my home know me, because they have been with me a long time. So they have seen it all. They have also been here at 3 in the morning when I am scrubbing or repainting a room because of a mark on the wall that I cannot get out.

The times I do have new people in, I ask someone who knows me to come and support me.

Sorry couldn't be more helpful.

YES Theresnonamesleft.

You are me and I am you.

I am always struggling to find a balance.

😘

I use housework as a stick to beat myself up with.
it is linked with my bi polar anxiety etc. I can clean till I drop but still see somethign that could be done/
Ideally, I would love to hire a skip and toss the entire contents of the house into it leaving only the bare essentials becuase it seems as though the house fills up with shite which the other membersof my family then distribute around it in piles.
My side of the bedroom is pared down and DHs is dusty piles of crap that I doj't touch anymore. Daughters room I jsut pull the door shut on because there is literally nothing I can do.
The rest of the house i maintain at a functioning level of alright. I know it will never be good enough and I have come to terms with that to a degree but it can make me weep with frustration. I would rather live with nothing sometimes.

Honestly I don’t even notice, am going to spend time with somebody important to me, not carrying out an inspection, why judge?

So from where I sit, I can see the following:

Dust and splinters on the hearth, from the log burner
Books stacked roughly on the bookcases, rather than being properly shelved
A line of mucky little handprints about a foot up one particular corner of wall, left when DS was cruising
Scuffs on the understairs cupboard door paintwork
Toys on the floor

But to me this looks ok, because I hoovered today and put fresh throws onto the sofa and chair, so they are straight and neat, and there are no bits on the floor. It looks cosily cluttered rather than being a total tip (purely IMO!). (Mind you, repainting is on my list for this year).

As long as there's a basic level of cleanliness I'm pretty easygoing, myself.

Oh yes. I dream (literally) of a skip.

Also Bipolar. I think this is more tied up in my mh stuff than I realised.

I think I probably just need to CBT myself out of caring so much. It’s a vicious circle of feeling like I’m not doing enough and then not doing enough and then doing too much and it’s just aaaargh.

And it’s definitely a feminist issue as well, when I worked FT as well as DH it was still me being judged (or maybe just in my head).

I don't think people zoom in on details really. So they wouldn't notice if the bookshelves need dusting, but would notice an air of general untidiness or an unpleasant smell/piles of clutter. I think it's important not to overfill your home with stuff- get rid of stuff you don't have space for. I like to keep surfaces bare as it feels soothing when my eyes rest on clean uncluttered places. I like to keep clutter out of sight, I have a big drawer I shove it in then sort it once a week or so. The sofas are always clean, hoovered regularly and cushions washed and plumped as I think people notice this. I hate sitting on sofas that smell of dog or have pet hair on them.

Also think about the view your visitors have- seat them so they're facing a tidy part of the room or a nice view of the garden. Rather than looking at clutter.

Tidyness definitely has an impact on my mental health. When the house gets messy and cluttered I feel irritable and down. I feel like it reflects my state of mind, or the other way round.

I have very little 'stuff' So the mess in my house isnt mine.
If I lived by myself, my house would be immaculate 😂😂
I like my house to be bordering on OTT clean, rather than its default state of chaos. I hate people popping round, because I think the house is gross. I like a good 2 hours notice someone is coming round.
But in other people's houses in not bothered, I mean I did go to one friends house where there were shitty nappies on the floor and a bottle of formula that had been there slightly too long 🤢 《--- not envy

What ziggiestardust said

I find it easier to have the things that are needed.
So no ornaments or Knick knacks because they annoy the crap out of me.

If it doesn’t serve a purpose then it can piss off and stay away.

I also have hoarding tendencies which o have to work on. For example I do t buy any more bookcases beciase it would be fill within a week. Instead now I have to physically get rid of books if there’s no more space. I am also only allowed no to collect
One author.

This does make a small difference beciase otherwise I would be a health hazard.

I have tried the schedule.
Which works for a few days and then it doesn’t so I start kicking myself beciase it’s lapsed.
Then everything else gets on top of
Me beciase I am fretting about that thing. Then I get passed this and I simply
Don’t give a shit. If this makes sense.

But then other times I will notice everything. Even the smallest speck of dust I notice and it’s not a case of removing the dust but everything needs doing. If no one steps in I convince myself that painting is the answer. I have to pack everything up to paint and then before it goes back into the room, it has to be cleaned or disposed of.

I like my home to be clean and tidy every day (no children) I've noticed though it stays a lot more uncluttered and cleaner when hubby isn't around.

My house is only really clean and tidy when we're expecting visitors, and it takes a day and a half to get it presentable.

The bathroom and most of the kitchen surfaces are generally clean though. Occasionally I'll boycott cleaning the hob and the draining board when DP has cooked, because he manages to get splat everywhere just making a coffee.

I'm of the Quentin Crisp school of thought with regard to dust, hate hoovering and see little point - we only walk on the floor, not eat off it - and have cobwebs that are replaced within half day of being removed. It seems so futile and repetitive, I really can't be arsed with it, tbh.

What’s my plimsoll line for midden? It’s the public areas when you visit someone else house isn’t it? So hall should be clear and tidy - no nasty smells when you open door. Sitting room should be clear (or kitchen if you are going to sit round the kitchen table) and loo/bathroom should be spotless - which ever a guest might use. I start from that position and try to have all those things in order at home. You can close the doors everything else - though I personally am someone who likes all the beds to be made. Just reading your OP made me have a quick tidy round. I’m not obsessive, but I definitely feel happier and calmer when everything is in order, th etrouble is when you live with others you rely on them to do the same- DH is not bad, buti it’s tidier when he’s out. Kids are both fairly well trained (and would comment on untidiness in someone else’s house!). My mum would say be tidy, but you’ve got to live in it - it’s not a magazine spread.

I grew up in a filthy house so now mess, dirt and clutter make me anxious and uncomfortable. I cannot stand it. But I think out house is normal clean, not show house clean.