To think, as a 'millennial', that we do have it quite good?

[kokosnuss]

Hate the term, but the common narrative amongst 'millennials' is that the baby boomers stole all the houses and good pensions, leaving none for us.

AIBU to think that yes, many baby boomers are in an enviable position (paid off mortgage, pension, savings), but only because:
(and I'm thinking only of my own working class grandparents and their friends here, others may have different experiences)

• They started working and saving early, often as soon as they finished school at 15, and had little opportunity to go onto higher education; many would have gone into jobs the millennial generation might consider 'unfulfilling' (e.g. my Grandma was a sewing machinist). They also led lives my generation might consider 'unfulfilling', e.g. simple (meat and 2 veg) food, no foreign holidays, few trips to restaurants, events, etc. Their lives were very much lived in the home i.e. very cheaply and expectations of life were very different.

Of course, many baby boomers now enjoy an expensive lifestyle, with lots of foreign trips and new experiences, but only because they're enjoying the fruits of years of careful saving. They haven't always lived that way, but there seems to be an assumption on the part of millennials that they have. So whereas my generation might only finish education at 21 or later, and then want to spend time travelling, or building up experience towards a 'fulfilling' career path, they also want to live what they consider to be a 'fulfilling' lifestyle, e.g. gadgets, subscriptions, foreign trips, going to events, restaurants, bars, the latest fashions, etc. And then are surprised when they have no savings or pension!

I'm nearly 30, renting, and only just in the position my grandparents would have been in at 18/19 - steady job, actively saving for a house, making regular pension contributions. But I don't blame anybody else for that, because I've had lots of opportunities and experiences in return that I know my grandparents (and female grandparents in particular) didn't have.

AIBU?

BB couldn't help it that Governments across the world decide to opt for cheap credit.

Except it was there generation that did it...

When I got married in 1970, we didnt qualify for any social housing, 1 DD,my (ex) H was earning £13 a week, with a very qualified specialist job, we lived in London wih huge rent, bought a caravan and moved to Surrey, I started nursing training got £9 a week, after 5 years we sold the caravan and used the deposit for our first house, we didnt drive, have holidays abroad, never went abroad, rarely went out.no washing machine, central heating, I had a bicycle, to get to work get shopping In the 80 we bought a ground floor maisonette, interest rate 12% 18 months later 16% I had 3jobs, Nursing home, Hospital, cleaning privatehouse.Still no holidays abroad, got my first automatic washing machine. ExH had car, I had just learned to drive, but didnt have my own car. We moved to Sussex cheaper property, he was a milkman for many years so hardly earning a fortune. Then he became a cleaner and then got his own cleaning business, I worked a full shift at a Hospital 15 miles away, then came home did his bookeeping,paperwork, then in the evenings usually from 6-10 went out cleaning with him. He lost his contracts didnt tell, pretented he was going off to work,so he insured me, tried to kill me, and had taken out various extra mortgages on top of our original. Buzzed off, leaving me with the debt, had the house repossessed, it sold in the crass, so a lot less than the mortgages, rendering me homeless, with 2 small kids older 1 had a live-ine job. it took some years to get straight again, so no big pension, cheap house, wages in perspective. My work colleagues who marry have the house,washing machine,car,holidays abroad,nights out, and I dont think they would give up any of this.

Bellamuerte said: Baby Boomers were able to save because decent jobs were easily available with full employment rights and unions etc.

You do know that for Baby Boomers the world of work wasn’t as protected as it is now, don’t you? Obviously not! Instant dismissal was not uncommon, for whatever reason (or non-reason) the boss came up with and there was no come back or appeals back then. No ‘rights’ to
Consultations, no compensation, no nothing mate - you were on your own and you had to get on with it. Along with so many other instances of unfair working practices. ‘Full employment rights’. Ha ha ha ha ha!

As for unions. That state of affairs was just as bad. In some companies just being a union member was enough to get you sacked.

There are so many wrong statements here I just don’t know where to begin. My grandma, a council house and work8ng woman (born 1912). She enjoyed foreign package holidays in the ‘70’s, hell she was even featured on sone Spanish postcards of the time. My inlaws were the same (counil house people again). Every January, along with the sales, they’d trot off to the travel agents and book their annual holiday to Salou.

Me, I was born in ‘57. I certainly ate rice and pasta growing up. There were vesta meals (fantasticly exotic at the time, but with hindsight, not so much) which people enjoyed and even chefs like Ken Hom on tv - imagine, tv back then, who’d have thought we’d have it!

Having said all that, not everyone had it easy. A lot of people had it hard. I know it was still unusual for people to own their own houses and it wasn’t really until the eighties when people started to be able to afford them and the ‘boom’ started. We couldn’t afford to get on the ladder until the early nineties.

I do wish people wouldn’t make sweeping generalisations about others. And check your facts before you spout off ridiculous statements. You only make yourself look foolish.

If you read what I wrote I said as long as you can afford it without going without anything else. If you can afford £6 a week and everything else you need - clothes, shoes, food, heat, shelter - then you definitely have enough to trim enough off to afford a flat/house. Like I also said, it may not be in the location you want - you may have to move - and it may not be in the condition you want - you may have to do it up- but you can afford it. Whether you want to do what it takes to actually buy it is another thing.

I have to agree with the wanting everything now attitude off course a costa latte here and there isn't going to make much difference but everything does add up and I have gone without plenty in order to get where I need to be much to the horror of this who couldn't possibly drive an old car / not have a phone contract and the latest phone / have a second hand couch etc etc etc

Of course some people will do all those things and still struggle but for some I think they just don't prioritse their money the same ( there not wrong it's up to then but please don't moan or call me "lucky" )

Someone upthread said "insta perfect" and I agree

I was chatting to my cousin about diets etc the other day and she said how she's found eating healthy at lunch breaks at work easy now as for the last 6 month or so the cafe outside her work does takeaway salads rather than just the sandwiches crisps chips etc she used to get. She buys one salad daily when at work £3.50 -4 depending what's in it, 5 days a week so roughly at least 70 pound a month 800 pound a year . For someone else to make a salad you could make at home ( yes I'm aware this would still cost money but not that much nowhere near )
Constantly moaning about having no money and that she didn't get a holiday last year no you Spent the cost of a holiday on the convenience of takeaway salad instead

I agree with you OP.

My/our generation have a lot of freedom that previous generations didn't have and I do think we take that for granted.

DH and I really struggled to buy our house and I do sometimes envy my parents their globetrotting lifestyle and great pensions now they've retired, but I certainly wouldn't swap the experiences I had in my teens/twenties for the options available to my mother when she left school at fifteen in the 1960s.

tillytrotter1

100% in agreement with you, and similar experiences. I am not even a baby boomer. Generation X or something (weren't they a sexy dance group in the 70s?)

I think we're talking about two different things though: the social/culture situation and the financial security situation.

Socially and culturally I absolutely have it better than DM and DGM did. Financially I've had it much harder than DF and DGF.

At the risk of sounding like a right old curmudgeon, I think to an extent, never having any hardship in your life is a real disadvantage - it means that you never really know what you're capable of. I think a lot of millennials grew up in such comfort that they genuinely fear situations that they perceive to be 'awful' - situations where they can't afford a new jumper or literally have no money at all in their account (and no credit card) - situations that to previous generations would have been pretty normal. My grandmother raised 9 children in a tiny house on very very little money - it wasn't great but she coped. Once you're put to it, you do just cope (most of the time). Starvation, lack of shelter and disease are extreme - they are hard to deal with and life threatening - everything else is manageable. I think more younger people need to learn that and not be so afraid all the time.

Every generation has had it's problems. But to talk about the past and how frugal it was and nobody struggles now is a load of crap, have you seen the numbers of people going to food banks, unable to pay their bills and are living paycheck to paycheck? There is still deprivation in the country, it's not this oasis of handouts for many young people as some seem to think. What support for the young? They can't claim housing benefit, the benefits they or their parents can claim has been cut, rent is prohibitive, EMA has been scrapped and tuition fees are sky high, God help them (or anyone) who faces mental health problems.

You're spot on, ExConstance. When I left school circa 1971 the kind of jobs that now demand degrees were available to people with A levels. While only 5% of people went to university (fully funded with grants), it was entirely possible to get a secure, well paid pensionable job without a degree.

Yes, houses were cheaper but interest rates were 15% for a long time. The job market was buoyant and the benefit system a lot more generous. My dad retired at 62 and got the dole until he reached state pension age at 65!

I feel really sorry for mullennials. They're encouraged to saddle themselves with loads of debt for a frequently useless degree, expected to work for nothing on internships and harangued for buying coffee.

It's the politicians of my generation who are to blame. Took free higher education and then pulled the ladder up. Cut benefits to draconian levels. Yes I'm looking at you, Blair, May et al. Shame on you.

You do know that for Baby Boomers the world of work wasn’t as protected as it is now, don’t you? Obviously not! Instant dismissal was not uncommon, for whatever reason (or non-reason) the boss came up with and there was no come back or appeals back then. No ‘rights’ to Consultations, no compensation, no nothing mate - you were on your own and you had to get on with it. Along with so many other instances of unfair working practices. ‘Full employment rights’. Ha ha ha ha ha!

I don't think your average Uber or Deliveroo driver would say that their employment rights are well protected now, would you?

Or recent graduate working 4 unpaid internships before they got a sniff of a job.

I tend to agree with KimmySchmidt1. Housing is the big issue. I'm a Generation Xer and I bought a flat in London at 29. Until then I was a lodger or in a houseshare. My flat was shared ownership and I had help from my parents - I was very lucky. I had very little student loan to pay back, a couple of thousand. I also retrained and changed career when I realised I simply needed to earn more - it was hard work and I worked seven days a week a lot of the time.

The main difference I see between my generation and Generation Y, and this is only andecdotal of course, is that they seem to want to have a much better work/life balance than older people did at their age (or even do now, quite often). I know a few who work part time, and they want jobs that they see as meaningful and worthwhile. There is nothing wrong with that (in fact it's admirable in many ways) but it's going to hold them back when it comes to saving, especially given how heavily the deck is stacked against them regarding housing. I also agree with PP that they seem to spend more on disposable or small luxuries (coffees, clothes) and more on holidays than my generation, although I can understand why. I also live in the last remaining relatively affordable place in the SE, and my younger friends complain about Londoners moving here and pushing the prices up. They have a point but equally if they can't afford to buy here they can't afford anywhere in the SE and they need to think about moving for better paid jobs and/or cheaper housing, because unfair as things are, blaming others isn't going to make housing cheaper.

Overall I think YABU, because things are harder for Millenials, but they could take a leaf out of the Baby Boomers' book too.

Life is hard. Get over it, I think is what I'm trying to say! God I am curmudgeon.

I don't think your average Uber or Deliveroo driver would say that their employment rights are well protected now, would you?

Not even them. I was laid off with no warning in September. I got 3 months severance. That's it. See ya later. When my DF got laid off at a similar age he got 6 months severance and his last pay.

I don't know if it's the case with every generation, but it seems like people currently in my age bracket (30-45) are struggling to accept that they are the adults now and that going on about how 'she had it better than I do' is incredibly immature - it's our world to make or break and we have to just get on with it. I think (though I don't know) that earlier generations had no choice but to become adults and get on with it, even if they didn't know what they were doing. This generation is struggling even to have children - worrying about the responsibility and the cost etc - everything is so hard and so worrying.

I don't agree with you OP and FWIW I am neither a baby boomer or a millennial.

Your views are of the people that you have experience of. My baby boomer parents on the other hand spent similarly to how I do now although clearly not on things that weren't invented like smartphones etc but they bought stuff when it was available (early video recorders etc)! They went on holidays including abroad 40+ years ago, went out for meals regularly not just now. They wasted money on different things, far more of them smoked for one thing which makes up for a couple of lattes.

Personally speaking it was easier for people my age financially (and I'm 41) than it is now. We had no student tuition fees, were able to buy a house before they went up, earned more comparatively in our 20s than we would have now (I worked in the public sector, there have been years of pay freezes). I went to university, started work at 23 bought a house at 23 that would now be about 225K I couldn't have done that now without being gifted at least 70K.

But equally the comparisons/ moaning are pointless life is what you make it so be optimistic and for that I will say yanbu.

You do know that for Baby Boomers the world of work wasn’t as protected as it is now, don’t you? Obviously not! Instant dismissal was not uncommon, for whatever reason (or non-reason) the boss came up with and there was no come back or appeals back then. No ‘rights’ to Consultations, no compensation, no nothing mate - you were on your own and you had to get on with it. Along with so many other instances of unfair working practices. ‘Full employment rights’. Ha ha ha ha ha!

Protection or not many baby boomers worked for the same company or employer for life. Far more so than any younger person will.

LaurieMarlow

Or recent graduate working 4 unpaid internships before they got a sniff of a job.

How privileged to have internships created and organised by companies at all. How privileged and lucky to have people in companies take their time out to train and mentor and support a graduate with no experience and nothing directly and immediately to offer, a chance to learn and contribute and gain experience in work environments which previous generations would never have a look in for.

And then get 4 changes to do this. How unbelievably lucky. In my day, there was nothing like this on a plate. You had to call and beg and convince companies that you finally discovered existed (because there was no nice list, no programme you could join, no information out there at all) if you could come in and learn. You'd have to convince and persuade and urge and beg, and help yourself, look after yourself, go round and introduce yourself and convince every single person to take you seriously and give you something to do. And I did that unpaid again and again without moaning.

YADNBU OP. while each generation has its challenges, life is way easier now.

My grandma's was born in the 1920s and faced challenges most young people in our country today can't imagine. Had to leave school at 13 to work, brother died young of what is today a curable illness, no such thing as a TV let alone internet. Eventually TV's did come along but then it was one TV for the family, not two devices each.

During the war she lost friends and had to cope with rationing. Couldn't buy a simple pair of stockings for example, the fabric was needed for the war.

She always cooked every day, as take out and convenience foods weren't available or were to expensive.

She had one nice outfit which she called her "going out dress". She wore it every time she went out. Whereas we have overstuffed closets and charity shops snowed under with disgarded clothes!

And she wasn't even poor and didn't think of herself that way. It was just life back then.

Yes, Flowerpot, how privileged to work for free for months and possibly years at a time just to get on the first rung of the career ladder, probably in a hugely expensive city, getting into debt as you go. How easy they have it.

But Pie your grandmother wasn't a baby boomer. No one is arguing that people who were born in the 20s didn't have difficult lives.

Even if baby boomers did have it 'easier' - so what? What difference does it make? Children complain that 'she got more than me' - who cares? How does that affect you? Just get on and do what you can with what you've got!

When my mum got to 6 months pregnant (1971) she was laid off. This was so normal she didn't even think to complain. She also had to leave a job because her boss kept feeling her up. When she approached HR they laughed and told her to try not to be alone with him and not to make a fuss.

That's bollocks, Flowerpot, and you know it. In my day graduates got jobs on the milk round and segued seamlessly into well paid jobs. None of us would have even considered working for nothing. We'd have laughed at the very idea.