To tell you to read this. Especially if you keep antibiotics at home.

[TornadoOfToys]

www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/antibiotic-resistance/en/

Obviously I don't think IABU, but I do think some people need reminding.

And to urge you to think twice about buying meat that says it may have been produced with hormones, antibiotics or other antimicrobial enhancers on the label.

treacle presumably though if you were prescribed them long term there was a very good clinical need at that point?

Antibiotic resistance scares me, but at the same time Ds has spent 6 weeks on them in the last 3 months and I have just picked up a prophylactic dose for him because we know for him it genuinely is needed and is a better alternative than more lung damage.

The bigger issue is industrial use and counties where you can buy them over the counter. It’s amazing how many people “stock up” while abroad!

So many viruses (and bacterial infections ) can be treated naturally with herbs, essential oils, lemons and garlic etc. I do it. I haven't had ABS for many many years and am healthier than most people I know.

There are NO hormones in UK or EU meat. None. Their use is completely banned.

Mogginthemog Of course people who need them should be given them. No one is disputing that. It's the people who don't need them who are the issue. I hope your repair works

ExConstance I'd have thought the bacteria who get their resistance through humans are more dangerous to humans in the first instance. As opposed to the bacteria which "target" animals which would need to mutate to affect human as much (Disclaimer: I have no scientific evidence to back up this claim, nor have I looked for any, it is merely evidence of the way my brain thinks the world should work)

I'm not sure that is true Haffiana I think there is a time period that must be observed between last dose and the meat arriving on the market. I will have to check that, but not now.

What about poultry Haffiana?

It's not just individual GPs being under stress: it's the whole NHS being under such pressure that they can't keep an adequate eye on patients. Ideally, of course, you would look in on that child with the high fever every day to check that his nasty chest infection hasn't turned to pneumonia since yesterday. That's what an oldfashioned family doctor would have done 100 years ago- for those who could afford it. But you know that can't happen, you know you won't be able to give another appointment if the parents are unsure, you know they don't have the medical expertise to spot the difference between really bad viral chest infection and bacterial pneumonia, and you know a mistake could result in death. And you also know that your local A & E is so full that patients are dying in the corridors. So what do you do- tell the parents to go away anyway and just hope for the best, or prescribe the drug that might just do the work you haven't got the resources to do? Tricky one.

The other problem is the pressure on parents. Leaving a child's flu to resolve naturally in 2 weeks is likely to result in nasty letters from the school and, in the case of more than one similar infection in a year, in threats of fines and prison. My husband just rang in and reported to ds' Sixth Form College that he has had a relapse of flu and is back in bed. We couldn't believe it when the secretary just signed him off for a week with a few words of sympathy: his old school would have insisted on a doctor's letter (as if our GP doesn't have enough to do!) and threatened to throw the book at us.

The use of hormones in all farm animals at any time whatsoever is banned. There is no 'time period 'involved - they cannot be used at all, ever. This includes poultry.

Most websites about this sort of thing are USA based where it is completely different. This is why any trade agreements post Brexit with the US, or SA or any other meat and poultry producing country is so problematical for the UK.

God, please don’t get me started on gps being “stressed” and “overworked”( hahahahaha. This is ironic laughter). They don’t work evenings. They don’t work weekends. The “average” GP salary has just dropped slightly below £100,000 for the first time in ten years!! Poor gps. How do they cope in their nice warm offices when working part time still pays them twice the national average salary?????? ..
....< totally misses point of thread>

Anyway, thank you Tornado for posting the link. I’m going to make a coffee and read it. Since I’m feeling incendry I am going to say that I blame farmers and baby boomers. Baby boomers for eating antibiotics like they were smarties and feeding then to us as kids in the same way. And farmers for stuffing the healthy animals full of antibiotics because it’s cheaper doing that then getting the vet out for a sick animal. So we have been eating second hand antibiotics via our food chain for decades with no say in it. It just was.
It scares the living daylights out of me our somewhat cavalier attitude to antibiotics and there’s very few people still alive who can remember when people died of infections. There’s nothing as far as I am aware in the pipeline to replace them so our grandchildren or their grandchildren’s generation will be decimated unless we find a viable alternative. I would have been dead several times from pneumonia if it wasn’t for antibiotics so I am incredibly grateful for them . I just wish wish wish we had treat them with care and not handed them out so easily.

Tornado

The problem is that the little bastard bacteria actually have the ability to give other species the genes for antibiotic resistance. It sounds like bad sci-fi, but it's real.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_gene_transfer

www.fsai.ie/legislation/food_legislation/veterinary_medicines/hormones_in_meat.html

1. Meat or products from animals to which substances having an oestrogenic, androgenic or gestagenic action or beta-agonists have been administered in accordance with the dispensatory provisions of this Directive may not be placed on the market for human consumption unless the animals in question have been treated with veterinary medicinal products complying with the requirements of Article 6 and in so far as the withdrawal period laid down was observed before the animals were slaughtered.

This would imply (to me at least) otherwise Haffiana

nanny I've been listening , as well to the radio 4 play about antibiotics no longer working. It's a real concern and not at all "science fiction" . I liked the way the delirium was portrayed, quite smart over the radio.

And to urge you to think twice about buying meat that says it may have been produced with hormones, antibiotics
My understanding is that use of antibiotics in farming is a huge contributor to the problem of antibiotic resistance.
Without antibiotics it would not be possible to meet the demand for meat consumption, without antibiotics meat would be significantly more expensive and not available in the quantities that we are used to.
So if you want to be part of the solution rather than the problem on this issue you need to be vegetarian or vegan.
It's possible that lab grown meat may come to take the place of meat from sentient animals so that's one possible solution...

We're not discussing hormones though haffiana we're discussing Anti Biotics.

I think we're quite lucky that our GPs are very reluctant to prescribe antibioics, and the general advice now is to take a prescription away with you but only get it if you need it in a few more days. I had a horrific childhood with illness - I had scarlet fever, tonsillitis, ear infections, chest infections repeatedly and my mum always demanded ABs for me. As I am allergic to penicillin, I've now exhausted most alternatives through overuse and I'm highly intolerant of most. I had a 2 week course of Clindamycin for Pneumonia that left me with around 8 weeks of persistent diahorrea as a thank you. I've been the opposite with my DDs, and thankfully my training as a HCA has led me to recognise the signs of more serious infections with them. We all need a lot more education about their overuse, but I also think the Government needs to take far more action on their use in foods especially milk that is fed to growing kids.

I have a nightmare refusing antibiotics for my child. To the point i feel bullied into accepting them.

And farmers for stuffing the healthy animals full of antibiotics because it’s cheaper doing that then getting the vet out for a sick animal
Antibiotics are not given to animals to avoid vets bills they are given because animals who receive them routinely and mixed in with their feed grow more quickly, so more flesh can produced at a lower cost if antibiotics are used.
They are An essential ingredient for factory farming
without factory farming no one would be able to afford to eat meat regularly

I think another aspect of this is that antibiotics are being used to avoid surgery in a cash-strapped NHS. I've had probably 10-12 courses of them for tooth abcesses that were caused by a wisdom tooth that needed taking out. But they repeatedly refused to do the surgery. Of course, it had to come out anyway in the end, so why not just do it as soon as it becomes a recurrent problem? The surgical cost is the same, but the cost of many appointments, and antibiotics, could have been avoided.

"without factory farming no one would be able to afford to eat meat regularly"

I've not eaten it for 25 years. It's not even hard.

Most websites about this sort of thing are USA based where it is completely different. This is why any trade agreements post Brexit with the US, or SA or any other meat and poultry producing country is so problematical for the UK.
This is so, so, important. The US will insist that any trade agreement allows them to export their food to us with its hormones and antibiotics. Because that is cheaper to produce, our own farmers will have to do the same if they want to compete. It's very worrying.

ohfortuna Well it would be better for most people's (let alone the environment's) health if everyone ate far less meat.

Well it would be better for most people's (let alone the environment's) health if everyone ate far less meat
Too true but people eat meat because they enjoy it and I don't think they're going to give it up anytime soon.
I personally find it extremely unpalatable but I'm in the minority.

TornadoOfToys the EU legislation is readily available. If you look at the veterinary use allowed in Article 6 it will show that these are NOT growth hormones.

Well said, OP.

(The list of the things that are set to kill us all - or our children, when they are in their twenties, thirties or forties - is getting longer every day, and is absolutely terrifying.)

My lg suffers from ear infections which mainly start with cough and slight runny nose, then become fever for days (40+) then excruciating ear pain. The ear pain itself only lasts about 18h without AB before the drums burst. So not 7 days of ear pain, or at least not enough for her to notice or say about. Im sure this presentation is probably unusual but not impossible and it is a pity that due to AB resistance this is risking her hearing.
Im sure she would benefit from adenoid/tonsil removal or maybe grommits. And allergy testing. But it seems the nhs do not spend the money on this unless it is extreme.

I would pay myself the £5 for testing if it meant getting the AB when needed without an argument.
Though i believe healthy people can fight off bacterial infections?