thinking that Consultants should introduce a medical student to you?

[BlazingBlaster]

Had a hospital apt today with a consultant, when I walked in the room there was a medical student sitting adjacent to him (I hadn’t been pre-warned about this and I wasn’t phased by it).

AIBU to think it would have been polite to introduce the medical student? I said hello but the consultant didn’t even acknowledge he was there with him.

Whenever there’s been a medical student in with my GP we are pre-warned and introduced to them.

Penultimate word, second para, should read last.

When DD2 was in hospital for a week with a serious illness, in HDU, the amount of students who dropped in to have a look at her bloods etc was astounding.

So far, so fine - but they all seemed to feel that they had a right to discuss what they saw with me, without introducing themselves. I had literally never seen ANY of them before, had no idea who any of them were.

What was worse, their comments to me really varied. Among the most challenging were comments along the lines of 'it isn't looking good, is it?'

The consultant had no idea why I was so upset about this.

With it being a bowel issue, there's no question that you should have been asked first. Not only can some of the examinations can be very intrusive, but I imagine a significant number of patients find the appointment difficult.

The first time I attended a colorectal clinic, I read in my notes (upside down while the consultant was reading them) that 'Lannieduck is able to fully describe her symptoms and converse about them' (or words to that effect). It struck me at the time that there must be a lot of people who just aren't comfortable talking about bowel issues. You don't want to introduce extra strangers to the room when that might be an issue.

ADD extra strangers to the room, not 'introduce' (which is the entire point of the thread, d'oh!)

GreatDuckCookery, you said "she could have stayed behind the curtain or at the top end of the bed".

As I said, I'm afraid that a chaperone would be pretty pointless if they can't see what the doctor/nurse/HCP is doing and is able to confirm that the examination is being done appropriately.

There's been cases of patients abused while a 'chaperone' or even a parent has been on the other side of the curtain.

This is a useful leaflet for doctors about the role of a chaperone so I hope it might explain more for you why the HCA was there at the end of the bed:

www.medicalprotection.org/uk/resources/factsheets/england/england-factsheets/uk-chaperones

I've had many different types of internals/examinations over the years and have never had a chaperone stood at the end of the bed watching. She wasn't there at the beginning of the examination but came from behind the curtain midway.

During my later consultations she would sit on the bed listening to the conversation, so I asked the consultant if she could leave as I find it intrusive her being there.

Surely the patient has to feel comfortable?

how do you think med students learn if patients object to them being there? In my view if you are a patient in a NHS teaching hospital you should not be allowed to refuse

I can see that medical students need the opportunity to observe procedures, but they don't need to see every patient who comes into the hospital. If, say, five patients don't wish to be observed, but one is okay with it, then surely that's enough?

My daughter had a condition which was unusual, but not at all serious. Quite a lot of students came to have a look. We had no difficulty with this, because we were consulted in advance

I think that sometimes at these clinics they forget that for the patient this isn't m their everyday experience. I've attended a Crohn's outpatient clinic for years. I like my consultant very much. I can see that they're always busy but there are lots of little things that rankle with me as they're just a little dehumanising.

A couple of examples

• the scales are in the corridor in front of a row of seats so all sitting there see your weight. Not helped when one nurse has your file and shouts to the other one, what was that weight there Julie and the repeats it aloud as she writes it down.
• asking quietly where the nearest toilet is and as I come out of it (it's central in the waiting area) a nurse calls across "are you freckles?" when I confirm that yes that's me she shouts "I needed a sample off you" and tuts that I've been to the toilet (no mention of sample needed in the letter). Packed waiting room now all staring at me
• being given instructions and bag and gloves for a poo specimen in the aforementioned corridor in front of everyone.

These aren't major things in the scheme of my condition but they're the small things that do upset me when I'm already having to deal with an unpleasant condition.

yanbu
they should intriduce themselves and ask if it's ok for you to sit in.

ime, having students sitting in chamges the dynamic, often to the better.

I had a very upsetting time with a student once.
I was pregnant and bleeding. I had been admitted at night, examined by a doctor and the bleeding had slowed. For some reason no one had access to a Doppler or ultrasound at all so I had no idea what what's happening with my baby. It was really worrying. I sat up all night upset and worried.

Come morning I sat waiting to see if I could get scanned and go home. No one came. By afternoon I was climbing the walls wanting to know if my baby was alive or not. No one came. The nurses stopped by but no one could tell me anything. Eventually at around 2pm I told them I was leaving whether they liked it or not to go to the maternity section next door to get some answers and go home to rest or grieve.

Finally I had a ultrasound. Baby was clinging on. But I still want discharged. At 4pm the doctor said I could go home but I was stopped and told to go to a room for a scan. I said I'd already had one and had been told they were doing my discharge papers. Apparently there was a student wanting to do an internal examination on a "case like this"and when I said it wasn't necessary and that I didn't want prodded and poked any more they told me very rudely that he needed to as it was for him to learn.
I was losing my child. I wasn't a teaching aid. Thankfully a nurse saw how upset I was and stood up for me.

So now thanks to a very rude consultant who decided I had no say in anything, I am very uneasy about medical students being around. Would whatever happens be in my interests or done simply as a teaching example?

my dc has a rare disease, so we had a lot of students inyerested.
they all were very pleasant and polite (and had novel ideas like looking through journals etc)

Seniorcitizen1 if your user name reflects your age then I would assume you are the same age as me (63) or of my generation and would have lived through the times when even GPs were treated and expected to be treated as tin gods, far above the hoi polloi whose word is law and no one argued with them, this is 2018 not 1918 just because a patient attends a 'teaching hospital' does not mean their rights to dignity a privacy should be ignored or not even considered, just because their treatment is free at point of delivery does not mean they have no choice as to who treats them.

Yes students have to learn but surely one of the most important things they should be learning is that patients have the right to privacy, have the right to be treated with respect and courtesy and have the right to refuse to have them in the room so that early on in the careers they realise they are not tin gods, that the person they are treating is a human being not just a condition or illness.

Interesting point Oldsu my grandmother was born in 1912. Her family were significant landowners. The local dr then was someone who attended in return for payment and therefore was respectful at all times. A huge problem nowadays is thst very many of those who work for the NHS have forgotten that it is not free, it is only free at the point of delivery.