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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Aibu - kids in US wwyd?

48 replies

Craftyfox · 22/01/2018 18:28

Advice needed!
TLDR - Dsc in us, concerned re safeguarding- what do I do?

My DP has 2 children who currently live in America with his exW.

They moved there around 18months ago (few months after me and DP met) as she had met a man online and was marrying him. Agreement was made informally (not via court order) that access was to be regularly made as DP was a very involved parent.

Since she went there contact has been sporadic and dropped off to no contact. The eldest DC is on PS4 and has a (monitored) mobile phone. On xmas day we managed to skype/ FaceTime eldest DC who let slip they were not with the new husband and were ‘house sitting’ on xmas day. Due to poor weather in the states this child has been left unattended during the day there recently and has been playing on PS4 with DP on evening (our time). we have found out the relationship has broken down, that new husband has been hospitalised for MH issues at some point in last few months and that they (this weekend) moved in with mummy’s new boyfriend.

We know nothing of this from ExP and are increasingly concerned for children particularly as the elder child seems to be main carer for younger child.

I have done quite a bit of googling re hauge convention and we have spoken to civil legal advice line - to be told that we don’t qualify as we earn too much (about 45k together before tax) despite advice seeming to be that in cases such as this help of some sort would be available?

Basically what do I do? The children are now living at an unknown location with an unknown adult. They have no access to their father or extended loving and involved family and our feeling is that they are unhappy. We want them safe. As someone who used to work in a child protection environment every red flag I have is up. How the hell do we fix this? HELP!!

OP posts:

Jassmells · 22/01/2018 19:58

I doubt she has residency. And if she hasn't she will never be allowed back in!

AcrossthePond55 · 22/01/2018 20:11

Ok, I'm in the US and a US citizen. And I'll be using US legal terms.

You say the ex has family in the US. Is she a US citizen or a US national? Are the children US or dual citizens? It does make a difference.

As far as the children's welfare, who you contact depends on where the children are. Child welfare issues are handled (generally) by the COUNTY within the STATE the children reside in. For example, a child living in Burbank California would be under the jurisdiction of the Los Angeles County Department of Children's Services. Remember that the US is HUGE and most of the time responsibility for things devolves down to the individual state and usually further devolves to the county within the state. So if you have concerns about the safety of the children, it's imperative that you learn where the children are.

Is there a court order setting out custody? Most states operate under 'possession is 9/10th of the law' when it comes to children. This means that absent a court order each parent has the right to have the child in their care and no one (including the police) will remove the children from that parent absent a court order. So, unless your DH has a court order stating that the children are supposed to be residing with him and/or states that she may not remove the children from the UK, the Ex has technically done nothing wrong by US law. Even taking the children to a foreign country isn't a crime, unless you have a court order or other documentation saying she can't.

So, assuming that the Ex has NOT gotten any type of court order in the US, this also means that DP could fly to the US, get the kids (and their passports) and fly them home. He can NOT break down the door or otherwise snatch them from the Ex's house, but theoretically he could pick them up from school/childcare. Again, a school/nursery cannot prevent the other parent from picking up a child absent a court order. He'd probably need their birth certificates showing him as the father AND he could expect the school/nursery to call the Ex right away.

Now, the practicalities of getting them through airport security may be another thing. Ex must have not had to have anything to get them thru Customs, unless DP signed something. I'd say if they have UK passports and he's on their Birth Certs, he'd have less trouble trying to get them out than if they have US passports OR he's not on their Birth Certs. So unless DP wants to give that a try, the first thing you need to do is retain a lawyer specializing in international child law and begin proceedings for custody.

Dipitydoda · 22/01/2018 20:33

As you say she only went there 18months ago it’s likely she only had a 2year temp green card at best. With DH hospitalised with MH issues and her moving on to another boyfriend so soon I suspect it’s unlikely this will get renewed. Suspect she’s lining up new bloke to marry as soon as divorces old DH to maintain residency. Call US immigration with all the details you have. I suspect first marriage was to get us residency, the fact she has moved on so quickly might call into question the Reasons behind the marriage and thus the validity of the residency claim. Contact a specialist lawyer to sort access. Not sure how play station works but can you message securely

Original poster

Craftyfox · 22/01/2018 20:44

It’s not a secure channel as dc did have own account but now only plays via the account of the exWife.

I think we need to ensure we retain a good legal team and also speak to foreign office etc. I had looked into green card as the 2 year timescale was my understanding too

OP posts:

Dipitydoda · 22/01/2018 20:52

Yes. It definitely looks like exis trying to cut ties with you and take away the kids. Can you somehow set up account on the PlayStation for your dss? Or email
Address he can contact you with from school
Etc?

expatinscotland · 22/01/2018 21:45

'Yes. It definitely looks like exis trying to cut ties with you and take away the kids.'

Yep, this is why it's never a good idea to give permission for your kids to accompany a parent to swan off to a foreign country for their internet boyfriend.

Elocutioner · 22/01/2018 22:00

Well that's a pretty big assumption there expat and a generally unhelpful comment.

One star for effort

shallichangemyname · 22/01/2018 22:15

Take advice from a Hague Convention expert about what chance she’d have of getting the children returned if your DP does just go and bring them home.
There are defences to a return but they are very limited. Eg child’s wishes and grave risk of serious physical or psychological harm.
I used to specialise in Hague cases and was on the Lord Chancellor’s panel. The best person in the business to take advice from is a lady called Ann-Marie Hutchinson. Last I knew she was at Dawson Cornwall solicitors. Google her.

TroelsLovesSquinkies · 22/01/2018 22:25

You could also ask advice from www.reunite.org/ They would at least point you in the right direction.

expatinscotland · 22/01/2018 22:27

'Well that's a pretty big assumption there expat and a generally unhelpful comment.

One star for effort'

I've been part of a US-UK couple for over 16 years with 3 dual-national couples. It's never a good idea to allow one parent to emigrate to another country with the kids for an internet boyfriend/girlfriend without a formal legal plan in place for custody of the children and maintenance. I've seen some people come very close to losing their children due to not doing this, rack up huge legal bills and whose children were exposed to the parent's abusive partner/spouse and/or abusive in-laws. The ex seems to be trying to stay there by hook or by crook, so as I wrote up the thread, I'd report her to the relevant authorities in the US because they are on to this type of thing.

It's just never a good idea to allow one parent to emigrate with the children unless there's a formal plan in place.

Now this person basically has to find a way to get his kids back before this woman goes to ground.

expatinscotland · 22/01/2018 22:28

Sorry, dual national children. Our 3 children dual national and I am myself now.

Original poster

Craftyfox · 22/01/2018 22:34

Agreed that he should have had a legal doc in place - and I’d recommend that to anyone who is in the same bag. However that ship has sailed and we’re trying to do what we can. Thanks for the websites and names.

OP posts:

stickytoffeevodka · 22/01/2018 22:55

Why did he let her take his kids to America in the first place? It's hardly conducive to a good relationship with them when his life is in the U.K.

Italiangreyhound · 22/01/2018 23:02

@Lifeisabeach09 "Say you want to send presents." Great idea.

Please do not bring them back illegally you could be in a lot of trouble.

Agree with HotelEuphoria "Since it certainly does appear that she will be in breach of the terms of her visa I agree that involving the authorities is the best way to go to get them all back legally."

Italiangreyhound · 22/01/2018 23:07

Elocutioner "Well that's a pretty big assumption" The OP has said this is basically what happened. But indeed the ship has sailed. However, the ex wife made promises about contact and that she was going to be with one person, now it appears they have no home and she is with someone else.

@Craftyfox please do keep us posted, I really hope all will be well and that if things have gone wrong then they will all be back in UK soon.

Italiangreyhound · 22/01/2018 23:08

Ellisandra · 22/01/2018 23:10

They went 18 months ago - has he not been out to visit them in all that time? It's unclear from your post.

TickyTakky · 22/01/2018 23:16

Can you set up a very easy to remember email account with a very easy to remember password and give the details to the 12 year old so he would be able to contact you in future.

Mxyzptlk · 22/01/2018 23:33

Good idea, TikkyTakky.
And add your own email address to it as a contact, so that's easier for him.

pallisers · 22/01/2018 23:45

Please don't inform on her to immigration services without a clear plan in place to be able to take the children home to UK immediately she is detained. They may well deport her - after 3 or 4 months or more in a detention facility. her children will also be illegal immigrants and may end up in a similar facility. it will not be pretty. I wouldn't wish it on anyone in today's climate here in the US - I wouldn't do it to an ex unless I wanted to unleash the hounds of hell on myself for the next few years.

Skowvegas · 23/01/2018 00:38

She's not in beach of any immigration laws yet is she? She's married the guy she moved there to marry? Even if they get divorced she can still apply to have conditional status removed from her green card within the 90 days before it expires, which presumably is in the next 6 months.

Skowvegas · 23/01/2018 00:39

I'm assuming she went through all the appropriate visa processes to get there...

TroelsLovesSquinkies · 23/01/2018 07:27

If she hasn't married the original boyfriend who applied for the visa in the first place, then she is now an illegal alien and can be deported.
I'd get an address based on sending gifts, then go over and report her and take the children home, all with the involvedment of Homeland security/immigration.
I believe you can find out if she married in the county they lived in through the county clerks office. Burbank is Los Angeles county I think.

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