Teachers comment about 'concentration camp' (secondary school)

[JacobsAngel]

A teacher at my child's school, known for their passive aggressive attitude (and boring lessons-relevant) made a comment to the class and said " you're not in a concentration camp" aibu to think this is inappropriate?

Apparently the class were unenthusiastic and unresponsive (and probably bored) to the way the lesson was being delivered so the teacher tried to, well not quite sure what they were trying to get the class to do by saying what they did as all they got back were confused looks and whispers.

My child wasn't the only one to say, after the class had dispersed, they felt it an inappropriate comment.

Ironically the class have been studying the Holocaust in a different subject class so are well aware of what a concentration camp was, hence the startled looks from some of the children and hushed comments.

Should something be said to the school or view it as a faux pas by a teacher who really should engage their brain before they open their mouth?

Are you suggesting all teachers are liars Corby? If you complained, why do you automatically think 'the teacher would have denied saying it'. Bit stupid if a whole class heard them say it.

Not all teachers no. But the ones I know don't make jokey comments about concentration camps. In or out of the classroom.

Dont get this. I thought the Mail was famous for being not at all PC and most unlikely to support the kind of people who look for things to be offended by

It totally depends on who says it and who is offended. If it is said by a Muslim, an immigrant, a teacher, a labour supporter, and the person offended is a 'middle-England' white tory, then it's really terrible and they should be fired. If it's the other way around, it's PC gone mad and why can't we crack racist jokes anymore etc.

Leaving aside the whole 'teacher-bashing' potential - and the defensiveness thereby raised - I want to take this thread somewhere else.

OP's gone - so, I think it's OK to do this.

Right. In teacher-mode: We have a teaching moment!!!

How great that there are so many people interested in the issues raised here! What are they, do you think? The demands placed on individuals-as-teachers in the modern education system? The causes of stress in that role? The history of the Shoah? The limitations of Socratic knowledge?

I think the main one seems to be the question of 'Free Speech'. No wonder, considering it's having a huge, real impact on our lives right now.

Well, I think this discussion is great but might I suggest that in order to deepen our discussion, and as a model as to how we might deepen that discussion, might I suggest that a little background reading might be in order? We might like to think about what other people have said on this issue, how the field of argument in this domain looks at present, and some key axioms and frameworks that might guide how we discuss it.

Might I suggest Stanley Fish's 1994 essay on Free Speech? It's short and available on-line (sorry, no link)?

I'm not going to paraphrase because I think reading it demonstrates its not just the argument but the how of establishing and progressing that argument that is quite crucial.

Anyone else have any other suggestions?

(This is not intended as a patronising post. It's genuinely posted with the intention of using social media to disseminate, communicate and learn. )

But the ones I know don't make jokey comments about concentration camps. In or out of the classroom

It wasn't a jokey comment about a concentration camp though. It was telling the pupils to get a grip and get on with their work.

I think when people in the UK say concentration camps most people will assume they mean the holocaust.

Odd really. Concentration camps are almost exclusively a British invention ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Boer_War#Concentration_camps_(1900–1902)

Free speech always has limitations though. We are not free to speak in an unlawful way. Does the teacher know the heritage of every child in the class?

Confused. Why is it offensive? Who is offended?

We are not free to speak in an unlawful way. Does the teacher know the heritage of every child in the class?

What actual planet are you living on if you think that is unlawful or anti-semitic in any way? Maybe focus on your bum-flannel user and the actual anti-semitism going on in his party and get outraged about that instead.

If they had just been told to get a grip and get on with their work no-one would have an issue.
I actually disagree that there is much point in discussion here. There are people who will think it's ok and there are people who think it isn't. That won't change. Because it isn't just about one comment.
The people who think it's ok are the 'you can't say anything these days, political correctness gorn mad' sorts and if they're not allowed to say what they want whenever they want regardless of their position in society and offence that may be caused, entirely without criticism they aren't happy. Yet it is everyone else who are whiny snowflakes.
It seems their precious 'free speech' isn't so important when it comes to others opinions on what they have said.

No Corbyns but there is a serious difference between speech that is offensive and this comment. Don't try to pretend there isn't. This comment was 'you are not in a concentration camp' meaning that a concentration camp is a horrible place and being asked to do your science work is nothing in comparison.

I am 100% not on the PC gone mad bandwagon. I abhor sexist, racist, homophobic speech. I think people are rightly pulled up for using phrases such as n*** in the woodpile and similar. However, I just cannot square them with things like 'my boss is a slave driver', 'I will kill my neighbour if he plays that music again', 'it's not like you're in the trenches'. Saying that the latter category is offensive IS taking things too far.
If people are encouraged to go on witch hunts against people who say these things there will be nobody left willing to do the thankless task that is secondary school teaching. Save your anger and outrage for real problems and injustices. Seriously. There are so many that are just tolerated as part of life yet some poor man gets slated for making an innocuous joke.

It's perfectly possible that the comment was misheard or misinterpreted by the students, especially if they'd zoned out of the 'boring' lesson. A number of kids in one of my classes misheard something I said recently and thought I'd used an appalling racist slur. Luckily they're pretty decent kids, so they checked what I had said rather than stirring up trouble for me by passing it on.

There's a level of irony in someone with the name'CorbynsBumFlannel rocking up to lecture people about 'disrespectful' language that teachers use in classrooms

The people who think it's ok are the 'you can't say anything these days, political correctness gorn mad' sorts and if they're not allowed to say what they want whenever they want regardless of their position in society and offence that may be caused, entirely without criticism they aren't happy. Yet it is everyone else who are whiny snowflakes.

Absolutely not. There are lots of things it's inappropriate to say and as a teacher it's right that expectations are a little higher than other jobs. I'm pretty bolshy in decrying thoughtless generalisation and lazy stereotypes; but what the OP thinks should be stopped because it's offensive goes beyond mere politeness and respect for others, into removing all character and personality from the world.

The comment didn't insult anyone, it didn't promote hate, it just used an idiom. It's illiberal and silly to imagine that you get to police others language to this level, whether you like the phrase or not.

I'm pretty sure you are the only person who's used the phrase 'political correctness'.

It seems their precious 'free speech' isn't so important when it comes to others opinions on what they have said.

I don't think you understand what free speech is. No-one has suggested OP should be stopped from saying silly things (as she thinks the teacher should). We are just pointing out the foolishness.

donquixote Please have a look at the Fish essay. It's a classic, and so worth your while if you are interested in this issue - which you clearly are.

I think the Fish article would really adumbrate and deepen your claim to understand what 'Free Speech' is and deepen your engagement with Corbyn.

For a start, you seem to be operating with a notion that a. free speech is a question of freedom to enunciate speech acts and b. that such a situation exists and c. it is a liberal position to protect such a situation. None of these assumptions are necessarily true.

Corbyn I am the teacher who is disrespectful. I spend huge amounts of my life educating young people on their language use.

I can't remember the last time I said something that could be construed as offensive but I am now genuinely unsure about this. I have certainly never been pulled up on anything by a parent or staff member , but a student once did challenge me on transgender language. I was fine with that.

I reckon I am more left wing than you, to be honest - and more in tune with young people and their wants and feelings. I can smell teacher bating a mile off. I mean by the class by the way, not you. It is honeslty a regular turn of phrase to compare students' melodramatic reactions to hard work to some real world suffering. I do not think this belittles that suffering. When I lose patience with whiners, I often relate what life could be like for them if, by virtue of birth or circumstance they had different lives.

I certainly am not one of the ' not allowed to say things these days' brigade. I make fun of students who say that. But now I feel by (Gently)making fun of them , you think I am belittling them.

Language use moves on. Idiom changes.

I find it utterly depressing to come on to MN and see almost every day 'a teacher did this, ' a teacher said that'. It is like a surveillance state. I don't believe I have ever seen ' a police officer said' , for example.

Piggywaspushed
In my long experience of being in the classroom I think that when you have constructive and respectful relationships (as you evidently do), students have the confidence in you and , even when we do occasionally mess up, 'allow it'.
On the occasions where I have seen teachers be criticised for something they've said, it's generally (but not always) a reflection of a poor class teacher relationship. Sometimes I have seen classes 'gang up' on a teacher and criticise them relentlessly, often but not always, a struggling teacher and they can be merciless. Sometimes it's understandable (their frustration at perceived weakness) and sometimes it's unfair. My worry is when parents get involved as they usually pluck something out of context and run with it - thus fatally undermining the teacher and making it far more difficult for them to regain the power and the good working relationship with their class.
Parents really should stay out of 'policing ' language in this way - it's just destructive. If there is an issue then teenagers can learn to raise an issue respectfully and constructively with adults.

Startled looks and hushed comments. Sorry but the word 'snowflakes' springs to mind.

For a start, you seem to be operating with a notion that a. free speech is a question of freedom to enunciate speech acts

Nope. I don't think this situation is about free speech at all. That's why I suggested PP was mistaken. It is about another aspect of lierality: tolerance of others.

I wish I had time to be adumbrated by Mr Fish, but I'm only up to 42BC with my Philosophical essays.

Can someone give me an explanation / analysis of why it is offensive to remind young people that they are not in a concentration camp?

@harrietsmith the shoah was not mentioned by the teacher. So please stop making it about one atrocity.

We shouldn’t be raising children to be triggered by every little thing because sadly we live in a world where only the very lucky few won’t experience some form of hardship.

Although I do think it’s a phrase that has probably served it’s time and is outdated I certainly wouldn’t think it’s worthy of complaint. I would be more concerned if I was the teacher about the whispering campaign behind her back.

CorbynsBumFlannel
The OP would be reasonable to ask opinions on the comment. Whilst ot's a much of a muchness, they wouldn't be unreasonable to wnat to talk to thr teacher.

They are unreasonable to be fuming and making comments about irrelevant stuff.
They are being 'that parenty' to start going on about how lessons are boring (when their opinion on the lesson irrelevant).

Everything in their tone smacks of a certain type of parent who thinks 'my child says the lessons are boring so the teacher must be crap'. Their tone and approach so matches people who have coasting children who are lining up complaints readu to have a pop at the teacher when their own child hasn't workes hard enough.

There is a difference between:

1. The teacher made what I think is a misguided comment. What do you think?

And

1. The teacher is a boring teacher with boring lessons and they're also making unprofessional comments.

Someone may have an issue with me joking that i set essays because it's fun to torture kids. If they were so offended they wanted to talk to me then fine. But if they started suggesting my lessons were crap I would have an issue abd roll my eyes

Pupils should be made aware of teachers' sensitivities too, I've had some pretty horrendous things said to me by students, as have colleagues

Oh I can well believe it. A Parents DC (from a previous school) got pulled up by the teacher for calling another child a disablist name. Rightly so, most normal people would think. Said child is known for lying and being a bit of a bully (some parents have already got their children moved out of the class because of said child). Only Parent was having none of it with the 'MY child would never say that'. Newsflash love, they actually did.
The parent kicked up a fuss and put in a formal complaint, over a teacher who simply told a child off for using a disablist term.

I can see why you thought that OP, but i do think you should see it as a social faux pas as opposed to anything else.

BumFlannel does the pupil know the origin and sensitivities of each member of staff in their school? It cuts both ways...

To someone somewhere EVERYTHING is "triggering".

The solution is to grow a thicker skin and not take offence where none is intended. Fair enough if you think the intent is to cause pain but otherwise just get over it.