AIBU or is DH? DD's time off work

[Annienonymouse]

Namechanged as I don't want to out myself.
All of my DCs are grown up so I haven't been on here in a while but DH and I are disagreeing about advice I've given to DD25 and thought there might be some advice here.

DD started a new job in September after leaving her last one due to major depression (was on sick leave all summer). She says she really enjoys it, wants this to be a career and likes the people she works with but I'm very worried about her absence levels.

Since she started she's had multiple days off due to depression (can't get out of bed) and this week has been off with the flu.

Obviously I understand that she's unwell and shouldn't have to work unwell but AIBU to tell her that she should be worried about her job? She's been there less than 6 months and has disclosed her mental illness (she has a BPD and depression diagnosis both of which have caused health issues) which I understand is very brave but surely brings up questions as to whether she's able to do her job.

DH says they have to accommodate as she's disclosed and we shouldn't pressure her into working when her mental state is fragile. I want her to be aware of the reality of the situation. If I was her manager I would definitely be questioning whether she was worth keeping on, just as a purely business decision (surely there are many healthy 25 year olds who can do her job).

I've been nice about it over the phone prevously, told her to rest up but tonight I felt I had to let her know that she should be ready for consequences when she returns to work. DH says I'm setting her up to fail. What do you think?

Unsuspected this is what I think she needs to be prepared for and I completely agree with taking time off normalising it all. I don't know what she's supposed to do, I'm loathe to tell her to just get on with it because she is unwell but at the same time this isn't normal and I don't want her to suffer more than she is already.

I think you were wise to warn her. I would say her job would be likely to be at risk if her absence level goes too high.

I should probably go to sleep now, DH is complaining about me using my phone in bed. I'll check this first thing in the morning.
Thank you for all of the advice 💐

There is no point in you commenting in a negative way at this moment in time as she is 25 and an adult. Different workplaces have different attitudes to time off for sickness. Some places don't pay anymore than statutory sick pay and others have very generous terms. There are places where you would get a warning letter if you are off twice in the space of a month and other places where this doesn't happen.

Part-time has to be an option if she cannot cope with full-time work. A lot of firms cannot afford to employ somebody who has a substantial amount of time off sick.

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but she might want to try going for public sector jobs. She'll have more rights and they'll be less likely to get rid of her.

Hi

Just thought I’d say ‘snap’ (almost). Great name 🤣. I’ve been using this name for ages now, so don’t be surprised if someone asks how come your 12yo is suddenly in her 20’s🧐🤣

It’s a worry isn’t it. There’s such are fine lines between enabling/supporting/making it worse. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t most of the time. I don’t think any of us can tell you who is right, you or DH, but hopefully one of the links will take you somewhere to help you to decide how best to handle it

Pay privately for DBT. Sell anything not nailed down, it's worth every penny. My husband got his BPD diagnosis last February after a few years of complete hell, we've paid for him to see a therapist trained in DBT weekly since then as previous talking therapies hadn't helped and CBT made him a lot worse. It's now been nearly 5 months since his last significant relapse, that's the longest period of good days we've had in nearly a decade. After 2 years from first DBT treatment 90% of patients would apparently no longer meet the diagnostic criteria for BPD if assessed then, it is very successful. Please don't write her off as being unable to have a career, she can, but also know that the NHS is woefully under provided in this area, there was an article on the BBC just this week, and to get well you can't just push for treatment because frankly the framework isn't there to provide it.

Hi OP, just running in for a second. I have been thinking about you and your Dd.Have you heard of Remploy ?
This would probably be one of my first port of calls.
^Workplace Mental Health Support
This free and confidential service, delivered by Remploy and funded by the Department for Work and Pensions is available to any employees with depression, anxiety, stress or other mental health issues affecting their work.

Our specialist advisors provide:

Tailored work-focused mental health support for six months
Suitable coping strategies
A support plan to keep them in, or return to work
Ideas for workplace adjustments to help them fulfil their role
Practical advice to support those with a mental health condition.
So far, we have supported over 9,000 people across Britain, with a 93 per cent success rate of people retaining their employment after six months.

Get in touch today on 0300 456 8114 and speak to one of our friendly advisors, or email us on [email protected].^

Sorry for brevity. I promise to be back soon!

Wpuld she be better dropping down to part time if they allow for a while. Tiredness can have big knock on effect of bpd and her mental health

Sorry just read pt not an option. But I'd really get in touch with mental health charities. Perhaps there are some benefits that could top up her wage if she did reduce hours for mental health reasons. If she struggles to get up perhaps even having a later start time and working later may help.

Going against the grain a bit I actually found when I was depressed that being chivvied into working and getting out and about helped me. Otherwise you get into a spiral. I know that goes against the whole understanding and not pressuring official line, but thats my experience.

I worked with someone who is bi-polar. Worked part time - 9.30 to 2.00 five days a week. She took several weeks off, then had a phased return to work but kept calling in sick an average of two days a week. Her manager bent over backwards to accommodate her but eventually was tearing her hair out. It was the unreliability and unpredictability that were the issue. I'm no longer there and I doubt if she is either as her colleagues were getting tired of continually having to pick up her work and her manager was at the end of her tether.

I'm 25 with mh issues including severe depression. I understand where you are coming from but I really wouldn't start talking about the consequences she could face. I know I myself am very aware of them, but thinking/talking about them when I've been off can actually make me worse and make it harder for me to go back. The easiest return I've ever had was after a long term absence when my manager phoned me at home, asked how I was doing and how they could help and made it very clear that my job was in no danger from that episode of illness. It wiped out a lot of anxiety about my return meeting.

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but she might want to try going for public sector jobs. She'll have more rights and they'll be less likely to get rid of her.
Public sector is no longer the soft touch it used to be.
I have never seen so many sackings recently for things that would have blown over 10 years ago. They are looking at cutting the workforce wherever they can. If the OP DD took a lot of time off before her two years employment were up she would be likely to be out of the door.

You're between a rock and a hard place OP. I suspect there is no definitive answer to your dilemma; my head would tell me to prepare my daughter for the consequences of her absences from work but my heart wouldn’t want to.

Would a planned period of part-time working be easier for her to manage (if her work agreed of course) rather than trying to work full-time then having to take time off and maybe facing return to work interviews, negative reactions from colleagues, workload piling up and other really stressful things. It may be that she is avoiding these stressful situations rather than the job itself. Has she had any disciplinary or capability meetings so far?
I think your DH is wrong, your DD should discus this with her workplace rather than ignoring it and hoping that they don't dismiss her. If she would like to remain in the job, potentially for a number of years, communication is the key.
She may need full-time money but she appears unfortunately to not be able to cope with full-time working at the moment.
Ultimately her work can terminate her employment within the first two years unless the reason for the dismissal is discriminatory, a disability is a protected characteristic but a general health issue is not, any employer should consider whether any health issues are due to an underlying disability if the answer is no then they could dismiss her as they could with any other employee without any attendance issues.

I suppose one of the things is whether she really genuinely cannot get out of bed, or whether it's something she falls back on when she's not feeling brilliant but could get up if she gave it a go.

My teen dd has anxiety. She has had times when she really couldn't get out of bed. But I'm also fairly sure that there are times when she could get up and get on, and she would actually feel better for it, and she's not tried. Her criteria for "I feel too bad to get up" is very low.
The more time she has off, the more she worries about going back and catching up and friendships moving on etc and the less she wants to go in. It's a vicious circle.

As a parent I'm scared of pushing her when she is low and her getting worse, but at the same time I can see how the absences
do effect her.

I don't think there's a right answer here.
You could tell her that and she falls apart into a "I'll never have a job, I can't do it" and gives up.
You might tell her and find she thinks about it and decides actually she is saying she can't get up at times when she can, and decides to give it a go, and finds actually keeping going is better for her.

Problem is that you can't tell.

I'm with you op. I can see it from both sides and my partner was in a similar situation recently, not through depression but very ill and had 9 days off. From a business decision i'd be questioning if they we right for the job etc... especially if it was a small company where every person counts. On the other hand though i can also see where your husband is coming from because saying things like that doesn't help

I'm wondering what it is you want to achieve by "preparing" your DD for the potential consequences of her taking time off?

TBH, you seem to have quite a negative attitude towards her - you say things like;

If I was her manager I would definitely be questioning whether she was worth keeping on

I can't see how she's going to be able to handle a career

it just seems so bleak

If you asked me to tell you honestly what I thought was going on, I would say that YOU have been very affected by your daughter's condition, and you are terrified and demoralised by what you see as the hopelessness of things ever improving.This anxiety is not about your daughter, it is about you - how stressful and difficult this past year has been for you as a family.

I suspect that, on some level, you think if you can just communicate the seriousness of this to her, she will somehow be forced to pull herself together and overcome her MH conditions by an act of will.

BPD is not necessarily a life-ruining condition - I have a friend who is borderline and bipolar, and she has a stable, successful career and is about to get married. She works hard to manage her condition and it has taken a while to get there, but she is a great friend, a wonderful fiancee and a valued employee.

Please do not write your daughter off, please do not feel that you have to "warn" her or get involved - part of her learning to manage her condition herself is doing just that - managing herself.

I agree with your DH on this OP, I don't think it would be helpful to point out the ways in which she can fail. I know your worries come from a place of love, but my experience with a friend with depression is that she might just take it the wrong way and give up before even trying/lose self-confidence.