Dance school snobbery.

[User3billion]

A bit of background... DDs go to a local village dance school, tiny school, only 2 teachers, DD1 has 9 other children in her class & DD2 5 others. They enjoy it and DD1 does well in exams (DD2 is too young). DD1 also attends festivals which she also loves.

I've recently started to encounter a real sense of snobbery from a couple of school mums who's DDs go to large dance schools. Comments like suggesting I shouldn't enter DD into certain festivals because they're "very competitive" or that DDs school are wrong because they allowed black ballet shoes to be worn in a ballet exam & therefore mustn't be following correct syllabus.

AIBU to think there's just no need?! They have no idea how good (or not) the teachers are at DDs dance school and they've never seen DD dance to know whether she'll be out of her depth at the festival. DD isn't bothered about the medals at the minute she just likes being on stage!

I used to dance, for 15 years, and don't remember this level of snobbery and bitchiness until I was well into my teens. Perhaps my mother just didn't let on & it was there.

Ignore them. Or shut them down with a breezy "we're very happy with x school". It's about them doubting their choice of school, and I guess taking hearsay as fact. How do they know that this festival is v competative?

The dance school they go to enter en masse every year. DD is new to festivals (only done 2 so far) and entering as an independent, with the permission of her teacher.

As long as you and dds are happy with their school - ignore them!

How old are the children in question?

Have you seen Dance Moms on TV?

They're 7!! Yes I've seen Dance Moms, I used to think it was exaggerated for effect, recently I'm not so sure.

We've had a dance mom like scenario at ours - i.e. the clear favourite getting the best parts...even after she left for a boarding dance school she got lead parts

There is a degree of snobbery but i guess it depends on how much your children do it for the enjoyment or because it's a path they want to follow.

DD1 did ballet from 3-16years but is continuing with tap and modern. She didn't do exams, auditions, etc. because it was a fun hobby for her and not something she wanted to pursue. She's good but not amazing and doesn't put in any extra practise but she's happy with her lot. As are we.

I do think larger dance schools are more serious however, if they teach the higher grades, Intermediate and Advanced Ballet for example-
they will attract more ambitious teachers.
Small dance schools with little opportunity for dance teachers to flex their "teaching muscles" are unlikely to attract serious teachers.

I am sure there are good small schools, but dance teachers who want to excel will tend to want to teach in bigger schools who do offer these higher grades.
The drop of rates of students leaving dancing over the years is high, so in order to be able to offer dance classes at a higher level there needs to be a substantial number at the lower grades.

If your DDs enjoy it though, then great.

What do we tell our kids to do in such situations?
Rise above it.

If they (and you) are happy then it's no one else's business and nothing needs to be said.

I think it does come down to ignore them and rise above it if you are satisfied with your daughter's school.

Yes it is true that the bigger examination boards would not have black ballet shoes for girls (such as RAD/ISTD being amongst two of the UK's biggest and most established examination boards). It's not the size of the school (I have a small school) but the quality of teaching that matters. If you are happy with the standard that your daughter is achieving at her current dance school, then at her age the most important thing ultimately is that she is enjoying it. Whatever extracurricular activity that your child takes, you are bound to come across pushy parents. Do what is best for your child!!

Doing things "properly" is a big part of ballet, I'm afraid. There can be snobbishness involved, but there are a lot of dance mums like me who've never been involved in dancing before and don't do the snobbishness because they've got no idea what's going on. I do like doing things properly though.

When DD went to an adult ballet class at uni, she realised she was the only one standing to attention with good posture watching the other half of the class perform, whilst others stood around slouching. This had been drilled into her at ballet school. It made her laugh . . . and then she slouched to fit in. She's got beautiful posture, though.

"dance school"

"snobbery"

err... yeah?

I have become - reluctantly - a seasoned observer of the ballet / dance world, including festivals and exams.

As others have said, it is not about size of dance school, but about quality - and quality from the beginning really matters, because the basics of extension, placement, foot shape etc are set in the very earliest years and are much harder to correct as the child gets to 8,9, 10.

If your DDs are enjoying their dancing, and are not serious about ti, there is no issue. They can progress through the exam system used by the school - which board is it? - will gain fitness, poise and musicality, enjoy performing on stage, and make friends.

If, however, your DDs have any wish to 'progress' in dance, it is worth just having a quick look at the setup you are in. Are the teachers well trained? Do they teach right up to the higher grades of ballet? Do students from the school do vocational grades (Intermediate foundation, intermediate, advanced) or the higher graded exams (7 and 8)? Are there a good proportion of high marks? Do some pupils go to Associate schemes run by the major dance schools?

When your DD dances at festivals, look critically at her and the other competitors. Look at posture, foot extension, extension of legs and arms, fluidity, neatness, accuracy, elevation on jumps, turnout. Does DD look like her peers from other schools? Or is there a difference? What I mean is that at festivals, to an observer, it can be difficult to spot exactly who will be paced, but it is usually - if a range of schools enter - to see from which pool of competitors the placings will come, and those whose technique is not quite the same.

None of this will matter if you are happy for your daughters to have some fun dancing as a hobby when they are young children. What you are encountering COULD be snobbery, or it COULD be an evaluiation of quality of training - and then you have to decide whether quality of training matters. Your daughter is 7 - but saying 'she's only 7, quality of training doesn't matter at that age' closes off some future possibilities.

It's common in any outside curricula where competition is involved.

You just have to continue doing what's right for your DD.

My ds got asked to join the local swimming club by a coach who spotted him. However he isn't a good all rounder and he was left behind as it's a competitive club. He hated it and after a year left and went to another club not known for its achievements at the top.

He's much happier and ironically his club are rising up the league because all swimmers are encouraged and he can excel in his stroke without worrying about what he can't do iyswim?

Not all dance schools are competitive.

Absolutely, speakout. Schools that do not take part in any festivals or competitions can be absolutely excellent (and may well offer much better basic technique teaching than those which make competitions their focus and perhaps therefore concentrate on 'showmanship') - but as the OP's DD does do festivals, at which these other schools perform, it can offer a glimpse into their teaching / quality that is otherwise hard to obtain.

Classes offered (ie up to Advanced 1 or just up to Grade 3 or so?) qualifications of teachers, exam board used (and quality of exam passes - as a point of reference, we have been associated with DD's ballet school for longer than I care to mention, and I can only ever remember 1 child, in 1 genre, get a pass, with Distinctions the norm, from a school that enters 2-3 days' worth of examinees) and destinations of leavers can give great information about the quality of instruction in non competitive schools.

Recreational dance schools - those absolutely aimed at those dancing for fun - are also great, for those who want exactly that, and know exactly what they are getting. However, mismatches between e.g. a child who loves performing and a non-competitive / performing dance school, or a child who dreams of being a serious ballerina with a recreational dance school DO occur, and are sad when they are unintentional.

Dance school is run by 2 ladies who have been teaching for years, they do it for the love because it's certainly not a massive money maker. They do exams in the IDTA syllabus. Out of 10 girls taking the last ballet exam at least 3 got Distinction, DD wasn't one of them, it was her first exam with them (late starter) and she was 3 marks off. The black ballet shoes were agreed for all dancers as there was an issue & not all had pink but all had black. The school has classes that are Babies, Juniors, Juveniles, Inters & seniors - I don't know what grades these kids are at but one of the seniors has just secured a place at a dance college as they announced it/congratulated her at the show.
They are quite strict with the girls in some aspects, correct lines, expect poise and good posture. They work a lot on flexibility etc in modern class and incorporate what I'd have called "gym" work.
I don't doubt that the larger dance school will boast a more prestigious alumni, purely by the law of averages if you have more students then you're more likely to have more successful students.
I will adopt the smile & nod approach because DD is clearly happy and if she is then so am I, it just gets a little wearing.
DD2 is only 3, has SEN and dances to her own beat, she already steals the show wherever she goes but not necessarily for the right reasons

one of the seniors has just secured a place at a dance college as they announced it/congratulated her at the show.

I am sorry but that is totally meaningless. Dance "colleges" are prolific and rely on student's ability to pay rather than their ability.

My dc dont do dance, but I have found over the years there is snobbery to be found in EVERYTHING relating to children.

"Oh mary is reading level 10 books, her teacher says shes the highest in her class"
"Tom goes to ABC karate school, they actually have to work for their grades and be good at them rather than XYZ karate school who just give out belts like sweets"
"Luke could gallop in his first horse riding lesson"

blah blah blah..... Rise above it, if your dd is happy at the school you go to then keep at it. Ignore the snobbery x

I would agree with speakout. [Obviously been in this world far too long].

It's a bit like a school saying 'Yay, one of our students is going to university': a lot depends on whether that is the University of Oxford or the University of Bedfordshire. (To pluck two options from the air)

If your DDs are happy at this dance school then just ignore the comments and carry on. However as your DD progresses you might find that the standard at festivals gets increasingly high and you might need more support and coaching from the dance school. Generally the entrants from larger dance schools are hand picked so only their top dancers get to perform.

I am a working class single mum. My daughter attended two different dance schools from 4 years to 16 years. I experienced some of the most appalling behaviour from dance school mums, and dads.
I would advise you to look for one or two parents you know you can trust and have absolutely no relationship with the others. Just blank them or you will feel angry with yourself for a long time about the time you wasted. You will never be happy with these people in your life.
My experience was that the longer the relationship goes on the harder they kick you when they see an opportunity. They bite - they go to dance schools with the purpose of making the people they have singled out feel uncomfortable. Act now my daughter is still dancing and has had many years enjoying her classes. You won’t have to go to the waiting rooms soon! Go for a walk - get fit!

I am the daughter of a dance mum and it was awful for me. I liked ballet well enough but the pressure absolutely ruined it for me. I was never very good at it and I was aware of that. It was not a problem for me, I didn’t want to become a professional dancer but my mother was overinvested in it all.

For years I was placed in the front row or first at the barre and I couldn’t figure out why. I was not good enough and I could not remember the exercises well enough, it was a nightmare and I couldn’t figure out why my teacher couldn’t see that. It turns out that after my first recital at 6yo my mother had screamed at the ballet teacher because I was not in the first row and my ‘obvious talent’ was hidden. The teacher gave my mum what she wanted and I got to muddle through each recital we gave.

Ignore these mums and feel sorry for their kids.

She loves it, but I know what you mean about parental moods. I think the dance schools have cleaned up there act a bit in recent years. A good inclusion policy and well trained teachers has taken the provision of dance classes for all ages out of the pre historic era in a lot of ways