To demand that my landlord repairs my flue/chimney?

[Grammarphone]

Good afternoon.

My OH and I have been renting a 3-bed end terrace cottage privately from a very wealthy landlord who owns a large portfolio of land, lettings and other associated buildings. We have rented our house from him since June 2016.

The house came with an open fireplace, swept and ready to use. Supposedly. We used it the first winter with no issues, but not frequently as we had no wood stored and ready to go.

In October 2017 we lit our first fire of the year and realised shortly afterward that the upper floor of the house was becoming very smoky. Fire was put out and a chimney sweep booked to come and clear the chimney. He advised us that the chimney was filthy - and in his opinion hadn't been cleared for some years - but otherwise would need a camera / IR camera inspection if the problem with smoke persisted.

The third time we lit the fire after getting the chimney swept it was again very smoky, and at this point we alerted the landlord via his private office/secretary. Letting agent not involved at this stage.

Weeks passed with no word back so in late December (!) I called to find out what was going on, and was told that they were in the process of getting quotes to have the chimney lined, but these probably wouldn't be completed until after Christmas. Fine, no problem, just glad they were being proactive.

Last week I again had to chase the office/secretary for an update, only to be told that the matter had been referred to our letting agent. I then called him, and was told the following -

• The quotes they had received to line the chimney were very expensive - some upwards of £8000
• Therefore it is not financially justifiable to line the chimney
• Use of the fireplace is revoked with immediate effect because of safety concerns
• A £10 reduction in rent will be offered off of our £1200pcm rent by way of offsetting the rise in heating oil.

I am absolutely fuming, we adore having an open fireplace and I am gutted to lose it so shortly after moving into the house. We had plans to stay put for the foreseeable future, and the open fireplace was a massive draw. The offer of £10 a month off our rent has been rejected and we have told the letting agent in no uncertain terms that the situation is unacceptable, and that we would be seeking professional advice on the matter.

However, I am also left scratching my head over a number of things:
Why did the landlord immediately jump to lining the chimney before inspection work has been carried out? Eg: did he know there was a problem before we moved in?
How have they got these quotes, and where from? No one has set foot in our property and I would argue that these cannot be accurate based on never having seen the fireplace/chimney/property.
A fireplace is classed as a working combustion appliance, and as such surely the landlord is obligated, by law, to ensure it is in safe working repair as it was when we moved into the property?
And finally, how can he justify offering us just 0.8% off our rent when the open fireplace surely would have increased the rental value of the property by much more than that? Some figures quote 5%.

The CAB, chimney sweep and general online scoping have been helpful and all agree he is accountable for repairs, and we certainly have a strong argument to put forward in this regard, but the actual law on these matters is also stupidly ambiguous - technically the landlord IS responsible for the maintenance and repair of the building structure, and this extends to chimneys and flues, but the letting agent is arguing that his responsibilities end with providing a heat source, and as we have a central heating system he is under no obligation whatsoever to continue providing use of the fire.

Can anyone offer some solid advice/knowledge/law on this before I go back formally with a request for works to be carried out?

Thanks.

Its not worth it for him

If you try to force the issue, he will drag his feet until he can get you to leave and remarket it without the fire being usable

He has provided heating though. I think that is his obligation fulfilled. It's disappointing for you yes, but legally no I don't think he's in the wrong as such.

Wow. If you were my tenant I'd look at how soon I could serve you notice and get you out.

Yes OP. To be honest I wouldn't be too surprised if he thinks you're more trouble than it's worth and you get your two month's notice.

Op I would probably go for a hovel if it had a working fire place. We all know they are features.. And maybe why you chose to live there.

I would say I. Moved in on good faith it was working, that's what I was told either compensation me or get it to work.

You need to work out would you move over this.

It's to expensive for him to do chimney however pp think he can afford to loose 12 a grand a year.

I your happy to move out over this, threaten it

Compensation?! Haahaahaa. He offered a discount on the rent. Start looking to move out because he'll not renew your tenancy.

We are assured shorthold tenants, he cannot serve us notice simply because we have asked for repairs. He would have to outline grounds for asking us to leave, and he has none.

Glad I'm not your tenant expat!

Contact Shelter for advice?

'We are assured shorthold tenants, he cannot serve us notice simply because we have asked for repairs. He would have to outline grounds for asking us to leave, and he has none.

Glad I'm not your tenant expat!'

He can refuse to renew your tenancy when it's up in, what a few months? He doesn't have to have grounds to do so, either, once the agreement is expired. I'm a tenant myself. But if you were my tenant I'd drag my feet and stall until your tenancy is up and then not renew it because you're trouble. The law is on his side, but if you have money to burn, literally, on what's ultimately a non-issue, have at it.

No but if he considers you a pain he won't renew when the contract is up so yes he can serve you notice if he does it at the right time.

I wouldn't have thought he's going to lob the best part of ten grand to fix it to keep you happy, when he could wait until your tenancy is up, and find new tenants that he can tell from the Off that the fireplace is just a decorative feature and have done with it.

Grammar

If you live in England or Wales he can evict you on the grounds of him thinking you're a pain in the ass. He doesn't need a reason - Section 21 and off you pop. He can then re-advertise the property without the fireplace.

I am not 100% sure about Scotland.

I think you are possibly overestimating what rights you have here.

With most short-assured tenancies/AST's there's a 2 month get out clause after the first 4 months. So he can use that or just spin out time till your agreement is up and not offer a renewal, which he is not legally bound to do. He is legally obligated to provide a safe heating source. He's offered a discount. I'd have asked for a larger one but that's about it. Start looking at new properties, because I'd put money on his not renewing your tenancy when it's up. No one is going to chuck the better part of 10 grand on an optional feature.

Agree with most of the previous posters. It is unlucky but he has provided heating and the chimney is very expensive to fix. It will also be pretty disruptive and he might have to compensate you for that. Easier to just block it off and say it is unusable.

When does your contract expire? Usually ASTs are 6-12 months. Maybe you are on a rolling tenancy now??

Honestly OP I could tell you stories about our previous letting agent (no issue with the landlord but she had nothing to do with managing the property) that'd make your hair curl. He was a horror. I don't think the fireplace not working is something you need to go nuclear about, to be perfectly honest. I'd have negotiated a slightly bigger discount possibly, but that would be it.

It is annoying but realistically he isn't going to spend £10k on the chimney so are you prepared to move out over this?

If I were the LL, I wouldn't renew your tenancy and get new tenants who would be told the fire place is non-working and decorative only.

You say you barely used the fireplace because you had no wood, so clearly the draw (sorry!) of an open fireplace was not enough to pick up the phone and order some. your landlord has offered you £120 a year discount for not being able to use a fire for a couple of months during the winter. This is fair enough I think. If you were the owner of a property that needed that amount spent on Relining a chimney I think you would probably change your mind about the wonders of an open fire too.

The fact that your landlord is well off is irrelevant, I assume that he has had experience of iffy chimneys before and knows what a pain they are. As others have said I think you might find that come renewal time you will be knocking on the estate agents doors again. I think refusing his offer might be a very expensive mistake.

If it was advertised and you have proof of this and it is stated on your inventory from moving in, then he is liable to repair the chimney, regardless of cost. As you have an AST he can't serve you notice but he can choose not to renew the tenancy and serve you notice 2 months before the renewal is due.

'If it was advertised and you have proof of this and it is stated on your inventory from moving in, then he is liable to repair the chimney, regardless of cost. '

And he can drag his feet about that. I mean, hell, plenty of LL's do when the boiler is out in their property. That's common. Leaving the tenant with no hot water and then giving them wretched fan heaters. He can take his time getting quotations, then stall saying repair people let him down, all sorts. And easily spin out the rest of the tenancy or the 4 months until he can serve the Section 21. This is far cheaper than chucking thousands at a chimney because someone fancies a fire.

We are assured shorthold tenants, he cannot serve us notice simply because we have asked for repairs. He would have to outline grounds for asking us to leave, and he has none. He can refuse to renew, as expat said! No reasons needed.

As for having to repair it, well, no. It is not necessarily. It is not the heating and he has offered a fairly reasonable discount on the rent - there is not really a set % added value of an open fire! They could claim that it is beyond economical repair, and as they have done, tell Ts they can't use it. Their personal wealth has bugger all to do with a commercial decision!

They probably should cap it and make sure it can't be used, though!

I write inventories for living, they will NEVER state that a chimney is in working order. Just that it exists, and may have a note if it is obviously capped or has carpet in the heart! I am no expert on chimneys, I won't commit to anything other than it exists, and the visual condition it is in!

We had a similar problem but with a gas fire being condemned because the flue was old and didn't vent so CO alarm went off.

We were really upset because although there was central heating, it was inadequate and the downstairs of the house was about 14c in winter.

The rich landlady came round in her fur (not kidding!) and laughed at me saying we were cold.

We wanted them to fix it, they did not want to, ultimately we couldn't force them, we moved. It's one of the many irritations of being a tenant.

I think you want your head examining creating such an issue over it.

I also agree with the pp's - push your luck too much and you'll have bigger worries than your lack of an open fire when your LL decides you're a PITA he wants out.

I would think that a draughty inefficient open fire would actually decrease the desirability of the place. Stove would be different.

Somebody should have got the chimney swept in 2017 - not sure who. And there has to be a co alarm.

The wealth or otherwise of the landlord are not relevant.

YABU (and I’m a private tenant myself)

An open fire can’t be that important to you if you didn’t attempt it for the first sixteen months you were in the property!

He doesn’t want it fixed. His wealth is nothing to do with it. He obviously feels it doesn’t add enough value to make it worth the expense of repair and ongoing maintenance. He owns the house, it’s up to him to decide that. He is legally obliged to provide heating, which he is already doing.

If this is a deal breaker then fine, when your contract ends, move out. If you fight him on this he will stall until your contract ends and then just not renew it so the end result for you is the same except with added stress of fighting him on this.