As dangerous as they say it is?

[Glitterbugsparkle]

Regular poster with a name change. I’m ttc dc2. I have some pelvic floor damage from ds age2. It’s considered a mild bladder prolapse and some stress incontinence
For this potential child I would like a c section. I really think avoiding natural childbirth might prevent worsening my problems.
However when I have mentioned this to my gp etc I get the whole ‘c section is major surgery’ and a list of awful risks/potential problems of c section. Then they say pregnancy alone can damage the pelvic floor so what’s the point of pursuing a c section.
Aibu to think this is rubbish and that they are trying to save money by pushing me into a further vaginal delivery?
Obviously I wouldn’t want to undergo unnecessary surgery. But if there are any other mumnetters who had pelvic floor problems after dc1 and then had dc2 by vaginal or c section id love to hear if your pelvic floor problems were the same/worse after dc2 however you delivered.
I just can’t trust the nhs to be honest at the moment. I think it would be anything to save themselves the bill.
Before anyone comments also, we don’t have the money to go private. It’s just not an option.

Not to dismiss the potential risks in vaginal delivery, and quite part from a CS being major surgery and carrying its own risks, the pelvic floor protection is minimal.

www.abc.net.au/health/talkinghealth/factbuster/stories/2009/03/26/2526089.html

ECS, stress incontinence kicked in two years after I had DD.

I also remember being surprised when the midwives reminded me to do my pelvic floor exercises after having my sections-I had assumed I wouldn’t need to be as strict since I’d had sections but no, they said again that pregnancy damages the pelvic floor and even after a section the risks are still there.

MadeforThis - so sorry to hear that happened to you. Hope you are feeling much better soon.

OP may I share this article with you from a thread I started recently almost on the same topic? A poster added this to the conversation and I’ve found it very useful...

www.newscientist.com/article/mg23130813-000-uk-doctors-may-starting-warning-women-of-childbirth-risks/

I had an elective CS, had to put my case strongly to midwife and doctors. It was the best decision I ever made. Fortunately no problems afterwards.

I have mild prolapse and mild incontinence or from dc1 (though this was improved massively by special exercises and pilates). Didn't get any worse with each birth. I have 3 kids.

OP don't take any crap from anyone. Demand an elective cs , they have been proved to be as safe as natural births. You already have damage from your previous son's delivery and you do not want to be left with incontinence or worse. Good luck OP.

Mrsmadevans, I’m dying to see your reliable sources that say c sections are as safe as natural births please.

Vaginal birth dc1. Definitely pelvic floor issued and referred to physio and told no point until after done with having dcs.

Dc2 was v v prem.and emergency section. My pelvic floor is worse than ever. I seriously need to go back to GP and push for referral and op

I think I'd be incontinent even more so if I'd had her vaginally.

Pregnancy alone will stress your pelvic floor regardless of mode of delivery.

LSCS - while not major+ surgery - is certainly not something to be considered lightly. As with any medical intervention there are risks and side effects, some of which are very long term (for example, if you need a hysterectomy in later life you’re far less likely to be able to have the vaginal approach due to scarring, you’re more likely to need an abdominal approach which carries more risk and more pain afterwards).

The same is true of vaginal delivery in that there are risks and side effects although they are of course different. People who have suffered major birth trauma (3rd and 4th degree tearing) are often advised to have elective CS rather than risk a similar outcome with subsequent babies. Mild birth trauma (mild prolapse / stress incontinence I class as mild) the benefits of subsequent lscs deliveries are less clear while the risks are well known.

Your prolapse / stress inco symptoms are not going to get better with subsequent pregnancies and may worsen no matter how you deliver your baby. The only advice I would give would be to talk your concerns through thoroughly with your maternity care provider and don’t have surgical correction of your prolapse until you’re done having children. Ultimately you can have the mode of delivery of your choosing but make sure you fully understand what the benefits and risks are.

Ls83 I meant I don’t judge people’s choice about how they deliver. I didn’t say I don’t judge nhs maternity staff. Because I do based on maternity staff that I have met. I believe this is due to the culture they work in rather than their personal beliefs. A cash strapped nhs desperate to cut costs.

I feel that vaginal deliver is promoted at all costs. Mothers will be Butchered babies dragged out with whatever means necessary leaving all kinds of damage with no thought to the mother and her future with ongoing health problems.

You have actually demonstrated my belief by saying a c. Section has major risks. fact. Well so does a vaginal delivery. I’m living with them and I nearly didn’t ttc another child thanks to my problems and the appalling care I received from midwives. Fact. Yet you don’t mention the risks of vaginal delivery at all. Not a balanced view. This is typical I believe of the view of lots of nhs maternity staff. Highlight the risks of c section, don’t mention the risks of vaginal. Lie. Keep women in the dark.

Just to say had one emcs & one elective. Recovery was fine. Both times. Quite a few posters here seem to have had a tough time so thought hearing about altering experiences might be useful.

As to how things are presented by medical professionals. Who knows. I do feel it's disingenuous that you are usually presented with risks of c section but not that of vaginal birth to compare them with. Sure unnecessary surgery is bad... but it's not like there is a risk free way to get the baby out. Good luck anyway OP.

All that's been demonstrated is that you have a chip on your shoulder about midwives and doctors. That's fine but there's no hidden agenda or general vendetta against women. I didn't say there was no risk to vaginally delivery. But there are risks to having major abdominal surgery and that's based on actual research. Maybe do a bit of reading around it. Not google.

Regardless of this, as I said before, just ask for a section and you'll get one. Good luck!

Not exactly the same but I had a bad tear and needed surgery straight after my vaginal birth. I was originally told straight away not to give birth vaginally again. Then after I healed well they said I could have the choice. I was going to try but DD was breech and not shifting so section it was. So much better! And I was told that if I did give birth vaginally and the same thing happened as before, the damage would be much worse, so I'm glad she was breech tbh and stopped me making a daft decision.

If you feel you want a section, push for it.

Hic you sound very balanced. Do you have a medical background?

April that article is very interesting and I really believe women should have all the facts. I believe (hope) that in 50 years time doctors and midwives will look back and be horrified and believe the practices of today were so archaic (keeping women in the Dark about risks when they could have other options).
Do you have a link to your thread April?
Thanks so much to everyone else that has posted. It seems some people got worse others have been ok. There is no way to predict.
Does anyone think they did anything in particular to prevent worsening of symptoms during/after pregnancy?

See if you can be referred to a pelvic floor specialist, and ask their advice about a c-section and/or recovery from your current issues?

NICE guidelines state, essentially, that any woman who wants a c-section can have one. But they will offer counselling and try to ensure your decision is based on sound medical reasoning rather than hearsay, which I think is good practice. But if you really really want it and you keep pushing for it, they can't actually say no.

I always swore blind that if I had a child Of demand a c-section.

Then I visited my best friend in hospital just after hers. She was white faced, on the verge of tears, a cather in her bladder as she couldnt pee, she could barely move and the nurses encouraged her to get out of bed to pick up her baby if it cried, she couldn't get on and off a chair properly for weeks afterwards and now 4-5 years later she has adhesions and her scar still hurts.

A friend of mine with a natural birth was up and about right away and came to see us at work on the train with her baby after only 3 weeks.

Another friend with a natural birth had tearing but said the stitches weren't so bad.

I dont know seeing my friend in that state after the supposed easier option was shocking.

Ls83 so their is no research on risks of vaginal birth? Including tearing? And incontinence? And prolapse? Fistula? Problems with scar tissue?

Please direct me to this reading you suggest on risks of c section. I’d be delighted to be informed.

I don’t have a chip on my shoulder about maternity staff but I do think that withholding certain information is lying.

The nhs should be informing women’s the risks of vaginal and risks of c section. All I have been told is risks of c section. Hence my resorting to google in the first instance.

Sorry I have not read all the thread. Just wondering though if anyone knows the comparison to other countries?

I have one DC btw and it was an emergency Csection.

I had 2 emergency C-sections. I recovered just fine from both, with zero complications. I don't have anything to compare it to, though. Those are my only births. I was recovering from abdominal surgery while caring for a new born, so it was tricky at first to figure out how to sit and hold the baby without it putting pressure on my incision, but that was honestly the only hard part (and it wasn't that hard).

My sister had super easy V births with short labors and no tears, and she bounced back faster, but I don't think her experience was typical of women who consider C-sec anyway. Some women are just really lucky.

For the rest of us, I think that it really depends on your specific situation and how you feel. There are risks either way, and I do think that the risks of v births to the mother are seriously down played. There seems to be a sense that recovering from horrific tares and struggling with prolapse and leaks aren't that big of deal, that those complications don't count. I don't understand this attitude at all. It's quit clear that V births cause some women problems for years and years.

Also, I recommend Pilates. I kind of hate doing them they aren't fun but they are great for our pelvic floor, getting muscle strength back in our abs, etc.

I had my daughter my emergency c section, I was induced and my water had broken but labour wasn’t progressing. She was just shy of 9lbs. Even though I didn’t give vaginally, I have a weaken pelvic floor!
Let’s say sneezing with a full bladder is a no no.

It's difficult to do a straight comparison of risk, because CS are, pretty much by definition, done in cases where a vaginal birth would be risky - so you've selected out the more difficult pregnancies. But it is major surgery.

The cost issue is a very interesting one too. IIRC, one of the reasons NICE guidelines now say that women can request ELCS and this should be a good enough reason, was that when they factored in post-birth costs of physio, follow-ups, pelvic floor repair surgery, it turned out that the average overall cost of vaginal births plus the attendant complications (not in all VBs, obviously, but averaged out over the ones that went well and the ones that needed various forms of surgical repair afterwards) came out to about the same as a CS. So VB only looks cheaper if you ignore dealing with the after effects (small minority of women, but very complex and costly to sort out).

My personal experience was a very good one. Excellent surgical team, very quick recovery time, minimal scarring (in fact you really have to go hunting for the scar, it's just a tiny silvery line - last time my GP had to have a rummage down there the comment was "are you sure you've had a CS?")

Just to say my c section was fine (I’m an older Mum) and it healed really well. My scar is very neat. I had some friends visit when I got home who had c sections and thought I was very active despite having major surgery.

You mentioned having a mesh repair op. I read the other day that vaginal mesh has caused some awful problems for some women, just to make you aware.

comparison to other countries

The US does far, far more C-sections partly because of how it plays out in our courts. If anything goes wrong with the baby and the parents sue, it goes better for the doctors and hospitals if they can prove that they did everything possible. They are better protected from malpractice if they do C-sections.

Here is a link that is mostly about the US, but compares it to other countries and so includes lots of tidbits: www.statnews.com/2015/12/01/cesarean-section-childbirth/