To wonder why teenage pregnancy rates have gone down

[Reallytired17]

here

Anecdotally, I remember four girls having babies in Year 11 in 1999.

Is it to do with better access to contraception, or are more pregnancies being terminated?

Got any evidence to suggest anything like this is occuring or simply a boring and trite response playing to your imagined audience?

I think if you haven't noticed this you've not been paying attention. For a start there is a freeze on benefits while the cost of living is rising. Which makes living on benefits much, much harder.

I do welcome this news but at the same time, I hope there is more being done to encourage those who are already pregnant/young parents to continue their education. When I got pregnant at 19 the assumption was that I'd drop out of uni. I had my daughter at the end of one academic year, went back after the summer and got a First. I was an adult; I dread to think what it's like for younger girls but over the last few years (I'm involved in advocacy for young mums) I've heard too many stories of young mums being pressured out of education or told not to bother with college/uni etc.

We can't just clap our hands together and say "great, lower rates of teen pregnancy, job done". It's still happening, and young women who - for whatever reason; whether through vulnerability, intention or just daft mistakes - have ended up pregnant young, are supported to continue their education and careers.

The answers we want such as more openness are true and the answers we don't like such as anal sex being more common are also true. It will be a huge mixture that can never be measured successfully statistically.

It can only be seen overall as positive.

Anecdotal experience will dominate how people feel though.Blackheart I don't judge, you did your very best but unfortunately young people are very influenced by their peers and surrounded by certain behaviours many are influenced. One of my students was exceptionally clever but dropped out in his first year. He no longer fitted in with his peers in the incredibly rough area he was from, people took the piss out of him and he dropped out of the very prestigious University he had managed to get a place. I told him to move away from the area he grew up in to go to University. This is almost ten years ago, I do still wonder what happened to that lad.

They generally came from homes which were less than happy and wanted to get away from their parents

This was definitely why I fell pregnant. My mother was too controlling and it was the ultimate rebellion. I had no proper father figure and wanted to create that nuclear family for myself. I didn’t see it then but I do now.

@Eltonjohnssyrup

I was unclear.

I'm pleased that a life on benefits is less appealing than it has been recently.

My question was regarding the assertion that in the patriarchy, more girls simply have anal sex and that this is reducing pregnancy.

melanie, exactly! Did it work out well for you?

I hate this whole 'doing it to get a council house' and that's wrong thing. My friends knew what options were available for them and they took one.

They've ended up with secure affordable housing in London and by their 30s have parenting out of the way and most of them concentrate on jobs now, if they haven't gone on to have second families. They made smart choices. It's worked out for them. Obviously I'm really happy for them it did, because they're my friends. But it did used to be an option you could take and often quite an attractive one which it isn't anymore.

I'm not sure why it should have been morally wrong to take that option. Most of us have some support in terms of the state paying for some childcare or tax credits etc. In fact I wish there was more financial support for women who choose to stay home.

Ah, okay clashes

Eltonjohn, so how does the change in benefits alone explain the previously much higher rate of teen pregnancies in the UK compared to, say, Scandinavia, where welfare policies have on the whole been very generous? If benefits policies were the whole answer, why didn't the Swedish teens of my generation (who, I assure you, were at least as sexually active as their British peers) also have babies in their mid-teens?

I'm not British but it's been a long, long time since having a baby meant you were 'given a house'. For one thing it would have been a house in a disadvantaged area and you would still have had to PAY RENT and would have been caught in a poverty trap.

I accept the link that is proven in Sweden. ie, biggest but not the only link between teenage girls and pregnancies is a lack of optimism about the future.

And all sorts of things could be a part of that - the price of accommodation relative to minimum wage. I think sexism played a big part in teenage pregnancies because a lot of uneducated girls would have been working in restaurants or shops earning less than uneducated boys who were probably earning a lot more for driving vans and being security guards in same shops. Girls probably couldn't visualise a future where they could pay for everything.

For one thing it would have been a house in a disadvantaged area and you would still have had to PAY RENT and would have been caught in a poverty trap

This seems to be looking at it from a more privileged perspective where these things would be a 'step down'. If you already live in a disadvantaged area then it might be where you expect to live and normal rather than offputting. If on long-term benefits then housing benefit will pay housing costs; clearly you'll still be trapped in poverty, but, again, if most people you know live like that it doesn't seem like a dire fate to be avoided, it's just how things are.

Education, better career opportunities and evolutionary increase intelligence.

I think there is more opportunities for women than there used to be, particularly in poor areas.

I grew up in a very deprived area and several girls got pregnant in my last year at school. There was no work for anyone except the very bright and very lucky, and girls who stayed home with babies felt very much higher status than girls who stayed home because they were unemployed and on the dole.

It wasn't so much about getting a council house, no one I knew did, but more about having a purpose to life rather than having nothing.

Having a baby was seen as being grown up and ambitious by most of my classmates, going to university or getting a decent paid job was an unrealistic dream.

Add to that environment poor education and fuck all for neglected teens to do except fuck and it's really surprising so few got pregnant.

I'm glad DD had more choices in life.

If benefits policies were the whole answer, why didn't the Swedish teens of my generation (who, I assure you, were at least as sexually active as their British peers) also have babies in their mid-teens?

I think that has a lot to do with housing. Half the population in Sweden live in social housing and it's much more freely available when it's only available in very limited circumstances here. If you went and got a job and a private rental then got pregnant when you were 22, your chances of getting social housing would be reduced to not much above nil because you already had accommodation. The housing authorities don't care if it's a six month let and your children will have to change school all the time. And it's hard to give up the housing without being classed as 'intentionally homeless' and losing your right to housing. Much easier to go straight from your parents at 16 with a letter saying you're pregnant and kicked you out. In Sweden even if you're looking for social housing in the first situation you stand a good chance of getting it, or even as a single person - so there really isn't the need to get pregnant and be housed at that age. So why would people?

Also, in Sweden even people in relatively low waged jobs have a reasonable standard enough standard of living.

In the U.K., if you hadn't done well in education and were looking at jobs like shop assistants, waitresses, cleaners, admin - it would be likely that you would struggle to support yourself, let alone a family. That is a lot less likely to happen in Sweden. Of course women (and girls) who wanted families looked for the best, most secure options for them and their future families.

And their were cultural factors too. In the 90s when I was at school it was well known that you could do this and it was a route to your own home and family. Amongst most of your peers it was viewed as not only acceptable, but often cool, 'grown up' and a bit rebellious. I remember in 'Just Seventeen' teen pregnancy was borderline glamourised as girls doing something cool and transgressive.

clashesBreakOut

Does this BMJ published study of young Britons experiences of/attitudes to anal sex work for you? bmjopen.bmj.com/content/4/8/e004996 Or it peer-reviewed research trite?

I think there is more opportunities for women than there used to be, particularly in poor areas.

I think this undoubtedly true in, say, the last 40 years, but the drop in teenage conceptions is much more recent. 2007 was when the steep decline began, and if anything that (pre-2008 crash) was a more optimistic time; there certainly seemed to be less anxiety about getting a job than there is for today's young people.

Yass there is definitely two priorities, preventing unplanned teen pregnancies and supporting young parents.

*there were cultural factors. Flippin' autocorrect

Agree with the poster uothread who said teenagers themselves look down on teens who get pregnant or cause a pregnancy and don’t have an abortion.

I have 2 teenage girls and they would be horrified at any girl continuing an unplanned pregnancy. They would see it as very ‘Jeremy kyle’

Agreed on two things:
Social media makes it harder to get pregnant because kids don’t leave the house
There’s a huge social sigma to teenage pregnancy now - I used to teach childcare (2014/5?) at GCSE in a very standard comp in the midlands, and all the girls who chose it ticked loads of the ‘at risk’ boxes for teenage pregnancy such as low income, coming from teen mums, living in social deprivation etc and they judged HARD if someone got pregnant. I remember once walking into the room and they were discussing a girl who had been excluded in Year 9 and was now pregnant, and one of the girls said ‘what the fuck was the point of that? She’s wasted her life now, her life’s going to be full of shitty nappies and she’s stuck here forever’ - it’s stuck with me all this time, feeling of immense pride in my girls for recognising the trap, and sadness for the poor pregnant girl who had just lost a load of friends 😔

"Kids don't hang around drinking as much as we did 20 years ago." Oh they do! Certainly where I live I bloody hear them!

Going on my dd and her peers (she's 16 they're between 16-18 mostly) they're losing virginity later, using condoms and other contraception more, and yes doing things other than piv more, not just anal (hopefully that fad will pass). Several are still complete virgins as in nothing beyond what we'd call "a snog". What's good is that THIS is now seen as a good thing. 3 of her friends are gay (2 boys one girl) so that of course has an effect too.

Dd is on the pill but also uses condoms every time. But she also has only slept with boys she's in relationships with, 2 so far, doesn't see the appeal of ons (so far anyway long may that last).

The lads are getting more responsible weirdly due to csa! While as adults we know men tend to use loopholes to avoid, the lads are being told and believing they will have to pay maintenance.

I think my generation of parents have been more open about sex, relationships and contraception generally, as are schools now. My mother BARELY managed to tell me about periods! I learnt more from school and teen magazines. More on telly and online too. While we often decry SM and vloggers there is more open (and accurate) discussion about safe sex and contraception.

Also agree being a young mum has become re-stigmatised - not sure that's a good thing for those that do get pregnant, still no stigma for the young dads.

I also agree a lot of them raised in Lp households and lived how hard it is as a child and seen how hard for parents.

I've NEVER met anyone who got pregnant to get housed/benefits. I'm willing to concede policy on housing and benefits possibly makes a difference to abortion/adoption v keeping the pregnancy but I don't think it affects actual conception.

Snowy "they wouldn't keep it" while I get what you were trying to say does he understand it would be HER choice and it would be wrong to pressure her into an abortion she doesn't want?

Ladyisabella - no way to know if MAP worked, conception may not have occurred even if they didn't use it.

Sadly I have to agree I think in 10 years it could be rising again due to cuts. Where I live the sexual health clinic was full time now only one morning and one afternoon a week (separate days), next nearest 90 mins away in fairly dodgy part of city.

I think boys especially are far better informed. My ex and his friends knew the very basic mechanics of conception but were frighteningly clueless on contraception and the menstrual cycle, ovulation etc. They were mostly without sisters and went to a boys school then in the army. Even the army basically just said "women lie so wear a condom"

My brother was slightly better informed due to having 2 sisters.

I was almost a teen mum falling pregnant at 18 the first time on the pill (taken properly, no stomach upsets etc) but mc. I was careful. Ironically my sister took a load of risks but it transpired when she was older she had fertility issues and needed treatment to get pregnant, if that hadn't been the case I think it's likely she'd have fallen pregnant as a teen too. Bro's first child was born in his mid 20's, to my knowledge there were no pregnancies prior to that and they were married.

What none of this affects is abuse. So far the only teen pregnancy in dds class the child was 14, at first dd and her friends were being a little disparaging. I pulled her to one side told her to wind it in. Turns out the father was the girls mum's bf - long period of abuse. She's kept the baby - he got 3 years and was released after 18 months

"I find that really sad in this day and age. Do parents expect schools and the internet to do all the teaching?" Yes but parents like this also expect their kids to remain virgins until their 20's while also giving them NO support or advice on relationships - ridiculous!

"don't be ridiculous mum, all the girls there are my friends" - Erm who did you sleep with as a teen - enemies? The guy who woulda been the father of my first had been a friend for a year before we got together.

Clashesbreakout I agree - a pp posted a graph showing all those saying "they do it to get a council house" "labour made it too easy for em" that the stats actually didn't add up, but it seems only me and the poster could see it!

Did it work out well for you?

Depends on how you measure ‘well’ to be honest! DS1 has ASD and is now living with his dad - my ex - which is painful but absolutely the best thing for him.
DS2s Dad and I have been married for 5 years and had 2 more children since then (4 in total). We have good (enough) jobs, a very nice house albeit a private rent and very happy Kids/family. It’s not what I imagined at 17, but it’s probably better. I’ll be drumming it into mine that whilst they are utterly adored, I want them to want more for themselves than just babies.

My DSD gets the depo injection - no arguments. She knows not going for it will have serious consequences while she lives under my roof

Elton, does Sweden have more of a culture of men taking parental leave after a child is born, sharing it with their partner or spouse?

Yes Sweden has a specific use-it-or-lose-it paternal leave allowance to enforce fathers taking leave, and the culture is more much geared towards both parents taking full responsibility for child-rearing.

Yes to all those initiatives like good health education and more openness but also agree with posters who have talked about aspirations and opportunities etc.

ALSO - strangely, I think kids are much more innocent these days. Growing up we had ToTP - watching 15 year old gyrating in an obviously sexual way - my kids want to watch Dance Moms. There were also plenty of school discos and a culture of underage drinking. Kids would have a lot of time unsupervised - hanging out in parks etc. These days they are so busy with exam prep etc that they don't seem to have as much downtime. They also seem to have a lot more organised hobbies such as organised Sports Teams and dance or similar activities.
Another thing might be that we would cycle, walk or bus to places so again were more unsupervised. Kids get lifts to places everywhere it seems and as others have mentioned might go for a meal or to another teen's house (with adults present).
Again, as mentioned, girls often had much older boyfriends, think 14 year old Sue Radford and her 18 year old boyfriend. I'm sure that pregnancy would have been a shock but the relationship wouldn't whereas now we are very aware of looking for grooming etc in that type of relationship (not that personally I'm saying it was but it would be frowned upon these days for such an age gap - I do agree with her by thinking it was fairly normal then...)
Just my thoughts...