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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

In thinking this is a win win situation? Am I missing something?

226 replies

Arghhhhhhhelpjobinterview · 13/01/2018 23:07

I am not financially savvy nor is my aunt.

Due to funny family ages I have an aunt who is only year older than me. Not really relevant..

I have inherited a small flat, which needs new bathroom and kitchen and general over haul. Ie new plaster etc. However it's got new heating boiler, very warm, good windows

It's too much for me to do up, and it's far to far away, that's not an option at all for.
.me.

My aunt has very tight finances and is desperate for some where to live. She has thought about buying my flat outright which would leave her with no budget to do up the flat.. She would have to get loan off her df or he pays out right for bits and pieces. But she would own flat (long lease).

Or.. I have offered if she pays for the bathroom to be done, she lives there rent free for cost of bathroom plus extra months as a thank you... And so on. Meaning she keeps bulk of capital, to invest... She gets my flat to live in...

And we get something in place legally to say... For every x she invests.. She gets x amount of months rent free. I also get something to protect me.

She gets sanctuary, plus her capital.. I get my flat looked after, council tax and bills paid and slowly done up.. By her but also me.
Looking at this as a ten year project?

Any spokes I'm missing?

OP posts:

GardenGeek · 15/01/2018 17:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/01/2018 17:15

I think there may be fees, maintenance owning on her current flat ... a huge piece of work needed to be done

So now a lot of the lump sum available from the sale of her flat may not be available after all, and she'll need help from her father to finance the purchase of yours? And her father's "scared" of paying more than £8000 at a time for it?

I'm truly sorry, but it's no wonder she's "desperate" for your flat - the chances of anyone else accommodating her like this are less than nil

Thesmallthings · 15/01/2018 17:18

I don't really how you aunt wins.. If ahe has the money upfront to pay for a bathroom I don't see why she doesn't save to get her own house. Other wise she's just paying so you don't have to. When youv decided you want to sell up and kick her out she's got nothing to show for it.

I get that's what she'll be doing if ahe rented but shed be more secure wouldn't habe to wait around for stuff to be done and wouldn't need lump sums up front

Original poster

Arghhhhhhhelpjobinterview · 15/01/2018 17:21

But your talking to me like fool who is literally going to rush into this and it changes a thread with a poster using that tone. Maybe you have not read my replies where I am repeatedly thanking people for the ideas and pros and cons coming in and that I am going to get legal advise before I do anything? So why post and be rude?

OP posts:

LemonysSnicket · 15/01/2018 17:25

Sounds like a good plan to me if both parties are happy with it.

PatchworkGirl · 15/01/2018 17:29

I haven't read the full thread so apologies if I'm repeating but I'd be very careful - becoming a landlord had a lot of legal implications and you really, really need to know what you're getting into (even more so if it's family). I'd recommend heading over to landlordzone or moneysavingexpert's forums - there are several very knowledgeable people on both who can advise.

Original poster

Arghhhhhhhelpjobinterview · 15/01/2018 17:30

Puzzled that's probably true, it's hard to go into detail without being outed, with the daily mail reading stories and putting them out nationally.

Suffice to say she is having to stay in dodgy cheap hotels to escape here home life.. Because she isn't left alone and has a hard time there.
She has looked at other properties prior to my flat and they were too much, too close to home, too far from home etc.

She likes my flat. She will have a lump sum, her dad will back her to a degree. He has messed her around... He has the funds to help her.
It's a very frustrating situation for all who know her.
We have a problem but we have assets.. I have a problem but I have a buyer or someone who wants to take it off me.

It's a minefield I want every t crossed, even the best solicitors are not fail safe and miss things!! I don't want to loose my Asset.. And I also want to help my aunt get to sanctuary.

She even knows the neighbours now as she has been popping in looking after it for me and said she feels very much at home. She has spent ages doing designs on how to decorate it.
She struggled with her last mortgage when she fell ill. She wants to be mortgage free and with some tiny Lee way.. She can be on my flat.

It's just the hurdle of the bathroom.. The kitchen is functional but needs doing.. The other rooms are just decor work..

OP posts:

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/01/2018 17:32

If she can buy this flat it's a bird in the hand

But she can't; she doesn't have the money, and can only get it by creating a level of complications which make the mind spin - and which also make it less and less likely you'll ever see more than a fraction of the money

It's true that selling at auction often gets you less, but isn't that better than one payment of £8000 and then years of heartache and problems while you listen to excuses as to why there'll be no more?

Original poster

Arghhhhhhhelpjobinterview · 15/01/2018 17:33

Average property is at least 100000 to get some where half decent. She could go to very rough place and get something for much cheaper out right. My flat isn't in rough area it's not in brilliant area but it's safe.. And on edge of lovely place.

OP posts:

Original poster

Arghhhhhhhelpjobinterview · 15/01/2018 17:36

No puzzled the payment would be as close to the asking price as possible. If she paid 32000 that's an 8 grand short fall... To be paid somehow.

What concerns me with her df covering the debt would be something happening to him. Sounds grim but sadly I am well versed in people suddenly dying. So whilst I would get it legally drawn up what he owes me. It's provisions if he died I would be worried about.

OP posts:

Original poster

Arghhhhhhhelpjobinterview · 15/01/2018 17:36

No puzzled the payment would be as close to the asking price as possible. If she paid 32000 that's an 8 grand short fall... To be paid somehow.

OP posts:

BritInUS1 · 15/01/2018 17:40

You would pay income tax on the rent that you are in effect receiving, less an allowable expenses - upgrading bathroom, etc may be seen as capital expenditure rather than repairs

So if you are giving her £500 rent free a month, you would pay tax on the £500 less any expenses

Also when you sell you will have to pay capital gains tax on any profit that you make

Jaxhog · 15/01/2018 17:41

Unless you want to risk falling out with your Aunt big time, and/or losing money, don't do it. It might work out, but it's a big risk.

Your best bet is either to do it up and rent it out through a trust worthy agent, or to sell it and reinvest the money. If your Aunt wants to buy it fine. But only if she can give you cash. Don't enter into any 'family mortgage' arrangement either. You will lose money.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/01/2018 17:43

She will have a lump sum, her dad will back her to a degree. He has messed her around

So if he's messed his own daughter around, what possible reason do you have to believe he'll cheerfully hand over large wads to you? You might see an initial £8000 if you're extremely lucky, but you'd almost certainly never see any more

I'm genuinely sorry about the situation your aunt finds herself in, but very much doubt she'll be able to think straight at the moment; more likely she's hanging on to this hope of a solution without giving any real thought to it at all. It seems to me you can either help her to "sanctuary" or hang on to your asset, but certainly not both

Your choice

Original poster

Arghhhhhhhelpjobinterview · 15/01/2018 17:54

Well she Will a have to pin him down on that and he will have to agree to have that legally bound somehow.
She will have lump sum and that's what I will be paid with.
If her dad covers the rest I expect that installment.

OP posts:

Original poster

Arghhhhhhhelpjobinterview · 15/01/2018 17:55

I don't tank there would ever be a that much profit in it unlike down south or tourist towns.

OP posts:

TroelsLovesSquinkies · 15/01/2018 18:05

I wouldn't do it. It still sounds like a recipe for disaster. If her father has some money to lend her, she could buy the flat from you and get her own loans to do it up.

StormTreader · 15/01/2018 18:15

This is an absolute nightmare waiting to happen.
The renovations will mean the flat continues to be unlivable until they are done, where does she live while they are going on, what happens if theres hidden big problems discovered or an issue with the builders that sets the "livable" date back one month, six months, a year? What happens if she decides "partially done" is "good enough for me"? Can you even legally charge rent on an unlivable property?

And havent there been cases on here of being able to claim partial ownership of a house because the person can prove large investment into the property?

Fatbergs · 15/01/2018 18:20

OP, if you truly value your familial relationships, please keep money, financial obligations and property far away.

I speak from very painful experience on this.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/01/2018 18:27

she Will a have to pin him down on that and he will have to agree to have that legally bound somehow

I hate to mention this, but he doesn't have to be legally bound to anything at all unless it suits him. I'm sure your aunt will claim he agrees in order to get the flat, but this is exactly the sort of thing which could fall apart in future, leaving you high and dry. I'm equally sure she'd be very sorry about it all and probably cry that she "just doesn't know how he could have done it", but none of that gets you any further forward

even the best solicitors are not fail safe and miss things!!

This is true, but they make an awful lot more from folk they've advised but who go on to ignore that advice, believing they know better. If you take these suggestions to a solicitor (and I'd keep it down to just one or two since you'll be charged for their time) are you honestly prepared to listen carefully and take on board what you're told, even if it means having to say no to your aunt?

Original poster

Arghhhhhhhelpjobinterview · 15/01/2018 19:37

If he doesn't wants to be legally bound then obviously I couldn't proceed

I have said a lot on this thread whatever combination we decide to go for it will be going via a solicitor!! So they will advise further and nail it all down. I have a figure I want for the the flat one way or another.

I think overall that's a bad idea re her renting from me whilst work on going as LL.. Too many pit falls and I Think for her owning the property is best

OP posts:

Original poster

Arghhhhhhhelpjobinterview · 15/01/2018 19:37

If he doesn't wants to be legally bound then obviously I couldn't proceed

I think overall that's a bad idea re her renting from me whilst work on going as LL.. Too many pit falls and I Think for her owning the property is best

OP posts:

Aga1nRain · 15/01/2018 20:02

I would suggest you get atleast 3 valuations from estate agents for the estimated price of the property in its current state for it to be sold

Similarly, I would get an estimated price of the property if you did the renovations

I would also look on www.rightmove.co.uk and Zoopla to find out the property prices in the local area

If the property is empty you will still need to pay council tax (no single discount)

I would also get some quotes for how much repairs would cost if you wanted to pay someone to do the repairs before selling

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/01/2018 20:04

If he doesn't wants to be legally bound then obviously I couldn't proceed

If you really mean this, then it could be your best way out of the whole thing. If she needs her father's financial support to enable the purchase and he won't commit, she can't even make out you're being hard hearted - though I'd prepare yourself for a lot more pressure along the lines of "I don't know what I'll dooooo"

In the meantime, to avoid some of the disappointment if she can't get the finances together in the end, would it be worth discouraging quite so much popping in / meeting the neighbours / planning decorations so she doesn't feel too much "at home" there?

Lastly, and as a matter of interest, can I ask what else she's pursued to improve her own housing situation? I know you said buying on the open market might be a stretch, but what about alternative rentals, researching any entitlement to benefits which might help her position, approaching local housing associations or even Womens' Aid?

Has she done - or had any luck with - any of this?

Original poster

Arghhhhhhhelpjobinterview · 15/01/2018 21:10

I don't know what you mean by, if you really mean this.
Perhaps I have not made myself crystal clear, what ever I do will be backed up legally, if I end up being owed money then that needs to be backed up legally!!

No I can't discourage popping in she is doing me a lot favour to pop in because it's empty and as part of insurance policy it has to be checked on weekly which she kindly does for free and it's relatively near her. I had to pay someone to do it before.

Yes she has run through many options.
Long term ideally she wants the flat as her property out right.. Paid for with no need for mortgage, massive security for her.
Or short term, without draining her capital some thing like.. Doing my repairs and living there... However the landlord details mentioned earlier are rapidly putting me off that idea.

OP posts:

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