H&M mother has said for people to 'get over it'

[WomanEmpire]

Apparently she has said on Facebook it's people 'crying wolf' and to 'get over it'

Wdyt?

I personally think H&M are counting their lucky stars and have sort of preyed on her, (this is very presumptuous, so I am prepared to be shot down) knowing that perhaps as someone who is native Nigerian and moved to Sweden (I think relatively recently, but again pull me up on this if I'm incorrect) might not be quite as aware of the racism that incurs in the US/UK, as those who live in these countries and wouldn't think to second guess in a shoot, because you'd trust such a popular retailer to not have racist slurs put on a jumper and modelled by a child, who could quite possibly still be called this by those idiots. Because I still can't believe that NO ONE along the process picked up on this.

I'm not saying racism doesn't occur in other countries but I have experience of those two countries.

So you know all about the slave trade, are hearing first hand that people are STILL TODAY getting racist abuse using that exact word, and you spout shit like the association is disappearing. How the hell is it if that's the case? If you're pissed off about it all, good because it IS racist to not have a problem with racial abuse. Goes without saying, or you'd have thought so. Someone who isn't a racist twat would immediately be horrified on learning the connotations, the history, and sickened that people still have to endure the name calling today

however the association is disappearing as time passes

This was last August during the Under 17 world cup: www.theguardian.com/football/2017/dec/28/liverpool-rhian-brewster-racial-abuse-england-uefa

Posters on the this and the other thread are telling us that this is still happening to them, their children

The signifier "monkey" was often associated (in a highly derogatory manner) with black people at one point in history, and sometimes still is. However, the association is disappearing as time passes.

Apart from the footballers receiving the insults and all the black people saying that it happens to them and their children currently - yep, at one point in history.

However, the association is disappearing as time passes.
Perhaps you'd like to discuss that with my dd?

I call my ds who is white a monkey as in "come on monkey" and I have said "come on monkeys" to him and his friends ( some of whom are black) as an affectionate term. I see nothing wrong with that

I think h and m made a mistake by not realising the sensitivities here but I doubt it was deliberate racism. I would be interested to see if the little boy had lots of other tops that he modelled. I bet these shoots are designed to get the best photo as quickly as possible in each item of clothing and they probably had lots of kids and lots of clothes to get through. I doubt that the slogans on the tops were given much thought

In one way if it is innocent mistake it's quite nice that it didn't even cross the stylists/ photo shoot managers mind that it could be perceived as racist because that shows a new and fresh mindset not those who still associate the term monkey with black people which is obviously reprehensible

white person commending another presumably white person for not seeing racism is NOT showing a fresh new mindset! I have to say it again - check your privilege.

So monkeys live in jungles. How is use of the word jungle making it more offensive? I do understand why people might be offended but I really think that by allowing racists to own that word is wrong.

The addition of jungle makes it sound more like reminiscent of racial abuse in the UK, and takes it further away from anything like 'cheeky monkey'.

I don't agree that vocally acknowledging all this is 'allowing' racists to own the word. I don't think you can destroy racist associations to words by not discussing them. As long as any word is used as an insult, it will remain an insult and we've got multiple threads now, full of MNers relating that they've and their children have experienced racial abuse that included monkey references.

It's like saying we're going to make 'cow' a positive thing to call women by putting cow cartoons on lots of different clothing items. All that will do is make more acceptable to insult women. It won't make being called a cow less insulting, less dismissive or less intimidating.

Ffs

This was an ad selling clothes

There was no context in which to deem it racist

Monkey noises are not inherently racist

Hooligans at a football match jeering black players with monkey noises clearly is.

Can people not see the difference?

It's all such a huge waste of energy.

It's all such a huge waste of energy.

And yet......and yet.............lots of people who've had experience of being referred to as a 'monkey' disagree with you.

Fancy that.

Ffs

However, the association is disappearing as time passes.

Apart from the footballers receiving the insults and all the black people saying that it happens to them and their children currently

Perhaps you'd like to discuss that with my dd?

At one time this was the social norm. It was even regarded as scientific fact. So yes, it is disappearing - not remotely fast enough, but it's on its way out.

I'm so sorry that footballers and your daugher have to deal with distusting racist goons, but I do think that sharing their association between monkeys and black people in the general culture only perpetuates it.

I do think that sharing their association between monkeys and black people in the general culture only perpetuates it.

You're saying it's wrong of people who've experienced this racism to speak of it?

Wow.

Wiltingfast RTFT, maybe a quick Google to learn about the history of the slave trade and what it entailed, and if you are still adamant there's nothing wrong with black boy in monkey in the jungle jumper, and white boy in jungle survivor expert jumper, it speaks volumes about those who refuse to listen.

Squoosh yep, seems like it's a case of " it's not happening, it's all in your head." Unbelievable really.

The only way to kill the racist associations and make 'monkey' completely neutral and just a cute animal is to make such racist name-calling completely and utterly unacceptable.

We, as in white people, do that by talking about it and condemning it. We make it clear to our young football fans that it is never a casual joke and if it happens at a game they've gone to see, they must not join in. We talk about how horrendous it is to dehumanise other people.

What we do NOT do, is pretend that racism will go away if we only address the most blatant, deliberate occurrences.

I don't necessarily believe that H&M set out to be racist, but I do believe that allowing this image to appear unquestioned would legitimise racist behaviour in the mind of every racist that saw it.

In a country where Christopher Alder, having served in the army, died choking on his own blood on the floor of a police station whilst police officers stood around making monkey noises

Where black players are still called monkeys, and monkey noises are made at them. Throw banana skins onto the pitch for good measure

Yeah I had a think for a nanosecond and thought well, we are generic black one big homogenous mass hence all socialised and think the same. So if this mother on behalf of her child says we should "get over it" then thats alright then. She being the spokesperson and all...

I do think that sharing their association between monkeys and black people in the general culture only perpetuates it

Yes black people keeping quiet about racial insults/abuse would stop those dishing out that abuse in their tracks wouldn't it. Maybe H&M should've done a "Take Responsibility For Racists" Tshirt

Imightmention

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy any clothing for their children. You think H&M have failed?

I think they have probably just about sold out of the "Coolest Monkey" hoody by now. All thanks to the media attention brought about by ethnic minority sympathisers - who don't need your sympathy.

If we were talking about clothing that represented a golliwog that's a completely different matter. Golliwogs are a completely made up doll that does not represent a particular race and were made solely to depict and rejoice in slaves suffering - google it.

Monkeys are very real and not something we can, or should, eradicate. This is a handsome young boy in a hoody. He is not being ridiculed or "pelted with bananas". In fact he is wearing an entirely normal piece of clothing similar to what his peer group wears. His mother has no problem with this. My family have no problem with seeing our children in clothing with monkeys on. Exactly why are you frothing at the mouth about something that doesn't concern you?

Roll on the day when children are seen as "children" - with no mention of black or white. Every child should be allowed freedom of choice and that includes being able to choose an item of clothing that appeals to them. Why should skin tone take away their right to choose?

My children were bought various items of clothing (and wellies) depicting monkeys - the same clothing and wellies that their white peer group wore. Why should there be a difference?

When I have grandchildren and I take them shopping they will have what they choose. None of this "Oh you can't have that darling, you're black". What an absolute backward journey this thread has been!

All of you who insist on standing up for the rights of those who don't have a problem - Well Done! You have just brought racism back into the present and future... How many children will now see this over the TV and internet and cotton on that there is something wrong with a black child wearing a top with the word "Monkey" who wouldn't have batted an eyelid until all the do-gooders came out in force.

pennypickle doubt they've sold out if the monkey hoody seeing as it was withdrawn from stock.
You have just brought racism back into the present and future. Are you seriously trying to say racism was in the past prior to this incident? There have been numerous posters on this and the previous thread who have the complete opposite experience.

Pennypickle

Again, I don't fully understand your post, but I'll try to address it in order:

Actually, H&M have done very badly here. They have lost celebrity partnerships. They have lost sales. None of this is a rousing success.

What is an ethnic minority sympathiser? What are you trying to say here?

Yes, I know what a golliwog is.

Who said anything about eradicating monkeys? What? What? How have we got on to deliberate species extinction?

I don't actually have any opinion on what clothing people in your family purchase, and have never claimed to. Please note that the hoodie in question doesn't have a monkey on it. It has "Coolest Monkey in the Jungle" on it.

You're quite right, your children's wardrobes don't concern me, so I have no idea why you brought your son's onesie up. I assure you I have only briefly frothed, purely on my dentist's recommendations.

Pennypickle are you trying to say only white people care about this or something?

The public reaction to H&M's poor cultural awareness is not driven by white people. It is joined by some white people, and so it bloody should be.

Pennypickle seems to believe that it's all about her family and their right to wear clothing with pictures of monkeys, or something.That's what I understand from her posts.

No the item wasn't withdrawn from stock. The photo ad was withdrawn.

You don't know what an ethnic minority sympathiser is? Its a white person who has no bloody idea about the problems that ethnic minority families face but feel they have to stand up and shout out in their defence when there is absolutely no need, is not wanted and only serves to cause problems.

You were the one who brought up the monkeys. Isn't that what you are frothing about? A gorgeous young by wearing a top with the WORD monkey on?? Of course tops with monkeys on should only be bought for white kids ...right?? Because black kids don't get a say right? Because they have white people who know what's best for them right?

We all have different experiences. Yes black people have always been subjected to racism, my own family included. I can only give you my own experiences. I would prefer you didn't reply as you obviously have no bloody idea about raising ethnic minority children in Britain.

All children want is to fit in with their peer group, enjoy the things their peer group enjoy...They do NOT need white supremists dictating what they are and not allowed to wear. Their families will fight their battles on their behalf. They are better placed to deal with black issues than white people. Get over yourself!

You're saying it's wrong of people who've experienced this racism to speak of it?

No. I'm not saying that at all. People are free to feel whatever they feel and talk about it.

All I'm saying is that I think that ignoring the association is a better strategy than continuing it. So that people one or two generations in the future will have absolutely no idea what we are talking about.