H&M mother has said for people to 'get over it'

[WomanEmpire]

Apparently she has said on Facebook it's people 'crying wolf' and to 'get over it'

Wdyt?

I personally think H&M are counting their lucky stars and have sort of preyed on her, (this is very presumptuous, so I am prepared to be shot down) knowing that perhaps as someone who is native Nigerian and moved to Sweden (I think relatively recently, but again pull me up on this if I'm incorrect) might not be quite as aware of the racism that incurs in the US/UK, as those who live in these countries and wouldn't think to second guess in a shoot, because you'd trust such a popular retailer to not have racist slurs put on a jumper and modelled by a child, who could quite possibly still be called this by those idiots. Because I still can't believe that NO ONE along the process picked up on this.

I'm not saying racism doesn't occur in other countries but I have experience of those two countries.

Well said Dreamy.

I agree with her and I find it rather disgusting that people think they know better than she does. Feel very patronising

Bollocks is it patronising.
I found out about this from my SIL who sent it to me and was astounded at it.

She is a 60 year old black woman who has lived her entire life in the inner city and raised her kids as well as fostering many others.
She worked in social care and is a community figure working with disadvantaged children. One child she has raised has just got a place at Oxford.
Tell her she can't tell if something is racist because one pushy mum who happens to be Nigerian wants this all to go away.

I can tell you that most of the raised eyebrows and whatthefuckery is coming from the WI side of my very large family. Aged teen to pension age.

If her child had not been allowed to wear the hoody because he’s black - that would have been racist

Does that make sense in your head?

This hoody says "coolest monkey". No negative there
No, this hoody says "coolest monkey in the jungle".
The words themselves aren't negative. It's the history and connotations, as related to black people, that are negative. As has been explained countless times already (admittedly mostly on the previous thread).
Words are never 'just words' , they have a context and meaning, often multiple layers of meaning.

Pennypickles maybe try telling these football players that er is nothing negative about being called a cool monkey

m.huffpost.com/us/entry/9345322

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/956396/rangers-monkey-chant-celtic-scott-sinclair-old-firm-ibrox-racism-show-racism-the-red-card/amp/

www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-02-26/thierry-henry-racist-chants-are-a-normality-in-football-stadiums/amp/

www.joe.co.uk/amp/sport/arsenal-fan-aims-monkey-chant-at-dele-alli-as-he-was-taken-off-at-the-emirates-149667

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/10/04/uefa-charge-spartak-moscow-fans-make-monkey-chants-uefa-youth/amp/

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/29/football-fan-72-convicted-monkey-gestures-black-players

www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/uefa-close-case-against-roma-over-alleged-racist-monkey-chants-aimed-at-chelseas-antonio-rudiger-a3694661.html%3famp

edition.cnn.com/2015/05/13/football/yaya-toure-racism-fifa/index.html

Posted by becles on the other thread

toffee I wouldn't bother.
Anyone who is determined that black/monkey is entirely benign is a fool

Whether you’re white/black/Chinese no one has the right to tell you how you should feel about something. I get pretty pissed off when other white people tell me how I should feel about shit, considering they haven’t walked in my shoes. She doesn’t speak for everyone and white people acting like she does is actually racist. People are allowed to find things offensive. That’s their right. It’s not up to anyone else to tell them different. Imo I think it was innocent, there’s a chance the boy picked the top himself too (as does happen on children’s shoots). But I’m not going to tell someone else they have to agree or disagree with me. The fact is is that lots of people do find it offensive & h&m really should be doing something more than just apologising.

downthestrada I don't think that most people who are offended by it are saying that any reference to monkeys are intrinsically racist.

Maybe not any reference, but any form of association with a black person is inherently racist, or so some seem to believe.

If people were saying that they found it offensive because it reminds them of some of the things racists come out with, that is one thing.

But people are saying it is racist to have a black child wearing that monkey slogan.

Not everyone will agree that because racists have used monkeys for racism, that makes any association in itself automatically racist.

I’ll have to tell my husband and his family how innappropriate they have been - buying clothing with monkeys on for my mixed race children all these years!

Just think... !

Anyway they have reached 18 and 16 without anybody connecting their race to a monkey picture on their clothing. In fact my 16 year old has a monkey onesie. I guess I’d best bin that then...

Given the outrage on this site alone about one child wearing the hoody can you imagine the fallout if lots of parents of black children bought it?

We don’t need to imagine scenarios. We have one here. Some people are saying it would be racist not to dress a black child up in a sweater that refers to coolest monkey in the jungle whilst the white kid is a survival expert.

Diversity studies has failed in the uk and clearly gone left.

...and the "survival expert" top on the white child. It not only makes it appear more linked to the common slur, but also had some colonial connotations.

Colonial connotations? I have no interest in telling people what or what not to find offensive. But I do think it is possible to over-reach to try to make things fit whatever offensiveness you want them to fit.

Lucylulu

You were I'm sure on the 40 page thread the other day and still don't realise it was not a picture of a monkey? How can you support either side of an argument when you can't be asked to check out basic facts?

Anyone can wear monkey onesies if they want, it's up to them. The problem is that H&M were unwise to put their brand behind a public advertising campaign featuring an image that echoes racist and offensive insults.

I really don't understand why there is debate over this. Do people love H&M that much that they refuse to believe they were at least thoughtless? Do people not believe racism is a thing worth being offended by?

Good for you Penny, my dd is 21 and was called Monkey earlier this week. Again. Thought we'd got rid of it but no, this has started it up again. Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it isn't happening. Surely the right thing to do is stand beside those whom it affects? Surely not doing so condones it.

I agree with her. If a white boy can wear a jumper with a monkey on it why can't a black boy?

If a white boy can wear a jumper with a monkey on it why can't a black boy?

When was the last time you heard a white person being abused using the word monkey? If you don’t get it after 7 pages, I’m not sure explaining again will help.

She's possibly feeling pressured to say that, or doesn't realise the context

Perhaps she is, as if this was the furore around my son, wearing the top, I would be the same.

Then again, it is HER call if she wants to tell people to get over it. It's not for us to say that she may not know the intended racism. She may know if very well and has decided to 'rise' above it, for her son's sake. Who knows.

I, personally, still think the advertisement was uncalled for.

pennypickle

None of your post makes any sense to me.

This issue came up because of a set of images produced by a multi-national clothes company. Not a random parent in the street, a big, multi-million grossing company. No-one would be making threads about a family choosing to buy that hoody for themselves. It's the difference between a teenage girl voluntarily wearing a revealing outfit to go clubbing and the same teenage girl being told she has to wear a revealing outfit for her job as a waitress.

It's also purely hypothetical. I started off on MN thinking the ad was inappropriate because it is historically well-known as a racist slur. Many MNers have testified that it is currently used, and described their experiences hearing it. The stories of the regular racist bullying their children experience were truly disgusting, and I very much doubt that large numbers of UK parents would buy that top for their black or mixed race son or daughter.

Clothes companies produce online (and paper) catalogues in order to make people want to buy their clothes. This time, they have manifestly failed. Why shouldn't we let them know that?

We humans share @98% of our DNA with chimps - we're all 'monkeys'

Haven't rtft but I'd be interested to see how many times h&m has used a black - not mixed race - child for any of their campaigns in the past and then make my mind up whether they're taking the piss or not.

The interesting thing about this and the other thread is that it seems to go like this

Ignorant person: it'd be more racist to prevent him wearing it/you're racist for seeing it blah blah boring easily refutable sound bite that has zero thought gone into it

Responder: actually refutes point because of this reason *provides links, first person experience of racism/monkey abuse

Original ignorant person: silence. Or repeats another dumb statement

Which just goes to show to me that those posters actually have zero intention of listening, learning, or debating. They just want to rile others up. Not once have I seen an 'ah actually I can understand why, I didn't realise the connotations'. Your racism is showing dears. Not that you're trying to conceal it.

Lots of people desperately invested in continuing to call their kids cheeky monkeys too, despite the fact the top doesn't use that phase and nobody ever said they shouldn't.

I agree with her. If a white boy can wear a jumper with a monkey on it why can't a black boy?
Are you serious? Have you looked at any of the links? Read any of the history? Read the thread?

The jumper doesn't even HAVE a picture of a monkey on it! For goodness sake, if you don't even know the basic facts, how can you even form an opinion?

If a white boy can wear a jumper with a monkey on it why can't a black boy?

If you're going to post this kind of idiotic shite on the same page as a bunch of links documenting the use of monkey/ape/jungle as a racial insult, then congratulations! You've just crossed the line between slightly clueless to wilfully oblivious. And there's a difference between the two, no matter how people might try to suggest it's all one big gray area. There's a huge difference between not knowing and not wanting to know.

But you probably won't come back, so do please make your way into the inglorious club of 'people who joined the discussion to write a near-identical version of this same line, as if it were an incredibly astute or revelatory point, then fucked straight off'. I'm sure we'll meet your doppelganger on the next page. And the next. And so on.

Well most of my non white friends found it offensive. But sure, all us whites can carry on telling them what they're justified in being offended by.