AIBU - 2 year old I’ll for over a week. A&E?

[IAmADancer]

I have two year old twins who came down with chickenpox on NYE. 1 twin had a few spots and hardly any symptoms and is now fine whereas twins 2 has been ill for nearly 10 days.

He had a temp of over 39 for 5 days and I took him to the gp on Friday who said it was chickenpox and not too worry. By Saturday night I was getting concerned as he wasn’t eating, barely drinking, high temp and sleeping constantly. Rang 111 and they decided to send ambulance. Paramedics checked him out and said it’s just chickenpox but I could be referred for out of hours doctor at hospital which I agreed too. Took him to out of hours on the Sunday at 12pm as this was earliest appointment I could get. GP saw him and straight away said he has an infection on top of the chickenpox and also an ear infection and put him on antibiotics. His temperature has now come down and he is starting to eat a little bit more but he is still sleeping quite a bit, 6 hours today, not eating very much and just generally not himself. I still feel concerned but don’t know what to do. He has also had diahrrea and has had some nose bleeds. I did tell the doctor all of this.

So I suppose I’m asking if I it would be unreasonable to take him to a&e and get him checked or is he just recovering from a nasty infection? Advice please.

I would really push the fluids. Sounds like he is dehydrated with the sunken eyes and listlessness.

A virus + fever he will be really dehydrating. You lose 10-15% extra fluid for each 1degree increase in temperature. Add in the diarrhoea too a d that's a lot of fluid to replace. I second syringing 5mls every 5 mins or whatever he can tolerate. If nothing else, it will make him feel much better.

GPs do not always get it right either. My daughter had scepticaemia with an invasive infection and her GP didn't know she was 'that ill'. She didn't take her pulse, yet it was more than double her usual resting rate. And it wasn't coming down with her fever. I just 'knew' she was very ill, so I walked out of the surgery, and took her straight to A&E. My own brother died as a baby, many years ago, from an infection that was dismissed by the family GP as 'just a virus'.
Always trust your mother instinct, there is nothing better

Agree with those who say trust your gut. Little kids change so fast it's frightening.

I appreciate a&e departments are currently at breaking point but discouraging those with a genuine concern from going in is not the answer. You know your child, you know how long it's been etc.

An ooh gp app is best first call as will probably be quickest way to see a dr. Good luck

Tistheseason17

Leave her alone ffs. What good is your posting doing, except making a worried Mum concerned her DC has a life threatening illness feel guilty?

Hope everything's fine OP. Sure it will be. I work for the NHS and all my doctors agree they're happy to see a young child if their Mum is worried, even if it turns out to be nothing. They'd much rather give the news that it's nothing and stop you worrying.

Thank you all, it was 17 years ago and still feels like yesterday. I have a beautiful 14 year old now which is an enormous help. As you can imagine I worry when threads like this come on. A mothers instinct should always be listened to, sadly there are still an awful lot of doctors who treat mothers as paranoid.

And it still infuriates me when a doctor doesn't know whats wrong so comes up with the old chestnut "its a virus". One of these days someone will say "write that down if thats your opinion so that I have proof" Hmmmm, that would be interesting!

How's it going Dancer?

Logged in for first time in ages to say yes - please trust your gut! My then 18mo son almost died 16 months ago after multiple doctors, A&E and paeds at hospital diagnosed him with a chest infection. Finally, on our 3rd visit to A&E someone noticed his heart was enlarged and an echo revealed he had myocarditis. We later found out it was caused by slapped cheek (parvovirus). Rare things can and do happen, better safe than sorry.

I hope your son is okay and your mind is put at rest, OP.

Hoping all went well for you last night OP, and that you managed to get your dc seen to swiftly. Fingers crossed he's feeling much better and you're both sleeping off a later-than-usual bedtime.

Morning everyone,

I called 111 last night and went through everything with them that had happened and how he was at the moment. They offered an OOH but they are extremely busy at the moment and couldn’t offer me anything until later today, which is what happened when I rang on Saturday. So I’m going to call my GP in a minute to book an appointment for this morning. But very positively this morning he has asked for some porridge, which is the first time in over a week he has asked for food. He’s definitely more alert this morning although still sleeping later than he normally would and he’s very wobbly but he seems better. He has got some nasty pus coming out of the infected ear so I’m wondering if that’s what was causing the symptoms and now it’s coming out it’s helping him feel better? Thank you everyone for your responses, sometimes it’s really hard to look at things from a balanced perspective when you are really worried about your child.

Glad things are looking up. Sounds like his ear drum has burst, which will give him some relief but do get a doctor to look at it as he may need more/different antibiotics and a further check up in a couple of weeks to see that its healed up alright.

He’s got an appointment at 9.50am so will get that checked. Thank you

So pleased he's perking up a bit, and I second everything Barbarian said.

It's sad though isn't it that people can't get an out of hours doctor's appointment until in hours the next day :(

It's sad though isn't it that people can't get an out of hours doctor's appointment until in hours the next day sad

Especially with a young child.

Dancer, hope your appointment goes well.

Yes it somewhat defeats the purpose of OOH doesn't it.

Barneyforever

I felt fobbed off because three healthcare professionals hadn’t picked up the two other infections in the space of 24 hours, yet when I saw the OOH GP she said it should have been picked up as it was fairly obvious he was very unwell.
When I spoke to the nurse at 111 she asked me specifically about his spots and when I explained to her what they looked like, that’s when she decided to call the ambulance. When the paramedics arrived I explained about what the nurse had asked and said and they just looked at me like I was crazy. Again I got told it’s just chickenpox but I knew there was more to it than that. What if I hadn’t taken him to the OOH centre and instead just left it as everyone kept saying it’s just chickenpox. The infections would have got worse and worse and who knows what would have happened. I’m so thankful to that GP who actually listened to me and my concerns and got him on the antibiotics.
So yes, with some of the people I dealt with I felt fobbed off and not listened too. Just made to feel like another crazy mother over reacting to chickenpox.

Erodes faith in the NHS? The OP here may have not been fobbed off, and I agree it seems she has had great care. But as a mother of a child who has been hospitalised over 30 times, I can assure you, that I have been fobbed off on far too many occasions for me to have any more faith in the primary care system we have today. 111 call handlers, are trained to follow often dangerously inflexible algorithms, and I have now had two formal apologies in that regard, along with promises to implement changes based on my daughter's experiences. As for the myriad of GPs we have seen over the years, it is obvious that their judgment is often based on a scale of 'likelihood'. The most likely reason for most childhood illnesses, is of course viral. And without checking my daughter in any other way, we have often been sent on our way with this 'diagnosis', only to find she's had pneumonias, kidney infections, invasive blood infections and I really could go on. Thankfully she now has open access to the hospital and we no longer have to go through primary care, but in the years that we did, my faith was most certainly eroded to a thread.
And 30 years ago, when my poor mother had taken my brother to a GP three times, calling him out to our home on the last ocassion, at 3am in the morning, she was dismissed as 'overtired' and my father was urged to give her a hot toddy to get her to stop fretting. Not even 30 minutes after that doctor had left our house, our brother was dead. No system is perfect, and the secondary & tertiary care our child receives on the NHS has been fantastic, but it is wrong to think that the primary tier is infallible. It most certainly is not, and in that regards, my motherly instinct has been second to none, and I would urge any mother to trust that instinct no matter what. Yes, of course the likelier scenario will generally be the most innocuous one, but if your instinct is telling you something, you need to listen.
Glad to hear your child is doing better OP, and I also agree re the ear comments. Our daughter has had quite a few perforations, and her behaviour has ranged from quiet suffering to outright hysterics, followed by the giveaway discharge, so it is definitely worth following up. Good luck!

OP little one is sounding better this morning, could he have had absess in his ear? I ask this as my little one displayed a lot of these symptoms, and whilst at the GP for the third time, he screamed in the waiting room, the most horrendous scream, and puss started coming out of his ear. When we seen the GP she said it was an abscess an s it had burst. As soon as it burst he started to perk up.

I can fully understand your concerns though, especially when there is so much emphasis on sepsis at the moment.

Don't listen to people having a go about you thinking about going to A &E or questioning why you are posting on here, when your little one is so poorly, and you feel so helpless, and don't know what to do for them, you are willing to do anything. I also feel from your posts, that many of the posts have given some reassurance, and because of that you chose not to go to A&E, so it was beneficial you posting here.

Anyway, draw a line under that, and I hope the appointment goes well and fingers crossed he continues to get better.

To be frank, I'd go to your closest paediatric A&E (not all A&Es see the kiddies, so ring up to be sure you're taking him to the right one).

DS had coxsackie virus which LOOKS like chicken pox but isn't and you're much more ill with it. I was so wishing he'd had chicken pox because coxsackie can get scary. If your little one has spots everywhere (particularly hands, soles of feet, and mouth- and legs/arms BUT NOT the back or torso, it may not be chicken pox but coxsackie). I'd take him in to A&E, no question. He needs to be physically examined.

I am married to a GP and he erroneously diagnosed our son as having chicken pox. Because he lives with his own son and was able to observe him over a 24-48 hour period, he concluded coxsackie virus and sent photos over to a consultant at Chelsea and Westminster hospital who was able to concur that it was coxsackie (which DH now thought it was). 111 can't see or physically examine your child. Your GP will have a 10 minute consultation and could possibly get it wrong. Take him to A&E where he can be fully examined.

Sorry to preach.

Coxsackie virus is what causes hand, foot and mouth disease. You're not necessarily more ill with it than chickenpox, it can be nasty or very mild.

Maybe read the update before preaching Vanguard. Or are you recomnending a&e despite the child seeming to be on the mend and the OPs imminent GP appointment?

Do you have a children's AE near you? I would go. Never mind what anyone else thinks. You're worried and only you can see him and know him. He is very ill. It certainly won't hurt to have a paediatrician look. Just go.

Agree with pp sounds like burst drum. I would think with the right AB early enough that didnt need to happen.
My lg gets ear infections. High fever for days then severe pain unfortunately overnight. The drums have burst several times.
Annoyingly after being fobbed off by ooh one time where it need not have burst - 5hrs before call back!
And one of the first times it happened she had a fever of 40 for like 2w we saw one (older) gp who couldnt see anything twice. She started getting blue lips and nail beds called ambulance who gave o2 and said seems like rigors. Hospital discharged after checking ears. She was no better so 2 days later saw other gp burst drum on one side and bulging on other. However he also found a new heart murmur. Which has stayed. Not noticed by either ambulance/gp/hospital.
To be fair she gets a lot of ear wax but if they werent sure maybe ab should have been given.
The cost of not getting the AB has been high. Ambulance, 3 gp appts and a a&e, cardio check, and a scan on her permanently swollen lymph glands.
Now we get only 18h warning time before the drums burst.

I gave both dc cp vax recently as the get uncontrollable fevers and vomiting easily plus the rish of ear infection.