To think BF support group are a little over the top??

[ethelfleda]

We have a local BF support group who have been very helpful in answering a few questions I have had now and then regarding breast feeding. However, just recently they started talking about the 'virgin gut' and how just one bottle of formula can completely throw a babies gut bacteria out of sync and that it takes up to 4 weeks of ebf to get it back to normal again. DS had a few formula top ups during the first few days of his life as we were struggling to establish bf and he was a low birth weight and jaundice. He has been ebf now for 9 weeks. I mentioned this to the group and was told that formula given in the first few days can cause irreparable changes to a baby's gut and it may never be the same as a baby who has never had formula!
Now I don't know if this is scientifically true or not but it's a bit bloody late to do anything about it now! IABU to think that there was no need for this to be pointed out? And what about women who choose to combi feed - surely any amount of BM is good and it's not very supportive of a woman's choice to do so? Does anyone know if this is actually true??

ignore the BF nazi's group,
yes support is great!
but judgement and negativity is not and has driven many a new mum to needless stress!
YOU do what YOU feel is right for YOU & BABY and just enjoy being a mum and getting to know your baby.
My first was feed breast milk for the first 3 months of her life, she projectile vomited many times a day, screamed almost all day long, slept in 20 min sections, always in pain, doctors said on no you are lactose intolerant she wont be getting any from you... my friend came to stay and while she and my mum were letting me grab a much needed nap they went and got some lactose free formula and from that first bottle she was a different baby.... i didnt look back, it was such a blessing having a baby who slept and didnt scream the whole time in pain.
my 2nd baby isnt lactose intolerant and i expressed for 6 months for him.
so sometimes breast isnt best, YOU do whats best for YOU & BABY!

Utter bullshit. I will never understand the cult mentality around breastfeeding.

I think it's tactless and unnecessary to tell you that.

But I am interested in whether it's true that exposure to formula changes the gut bacteria or whatever. That doesn't seem impossible. Obviously in some cases it's necessary for the baby to survive to have formula, and in other cases it's the choice of the mother to give it to them, and that's fine. But it would be good for everyone to have an informed choice.

Though I suppose it would be hard to balance that message with the fact that any amount of breast milk is of benefit - it's not all or nothing (though if this is true, there may be an extra benefit to all!)

It's "support" groups like that that contribute to PND. In fact, a "support" group like that caused me so much stress and tears while I struggled to BF DS that I refused to BF DD.

The virgin gut thing is just a theory. No scientific evidence.

I breastfed dd1 17 years ago, now feeding dd2 9 months. I can't believe how much of a hot potato it's become.

Yanbu. Completely inappropriate to point it out to you - even if there is some truth in it (and I have no idea if there is). As you say, how is it helpful now you've already given formula? Plus low weight and jaundice is pretty bloody harmful so the gut thing is irrelevant, you can't doggedly continue with breastfeeding for a 'virgin gut' and ignore things like that.

Nobody is going to have a virgin gut for long anyway as weaning will start at around 6 months and it all becomes irrelevant..

With regard to the virgin gut.... I was under the impression that some bacterial seeding of the gut (certainly of skin) occurs during birth, so it's not exactly virgin anyway. Plus even newborn babies can find their own fingers and suck on them; unless you've sterilized their fingers (!!), they will have bacteria on them. So realistically, bacteria are everywhere. The 'virgin' gut theory is one I'm dubious about (I used to be a microbiologist).

You know how they sell bacterial supplements in shops, as probiotics? Those essentially attempt to change the bacterial composition of your gut. You are doing the same with breastmilk for your baby. I wouldn't worry about the bugs that are already there in the slightest.

Also, they sound nuts and unhelpful!!

Clearly this group are spouting off some rubbish but there's no need in this thread for some posters to call breastfeeding support groups bonkers, cults and nazis.

I went to a lovely when that had additional HV support. There not all bad in the same way that not all breastfeeding mums are hippies.

Yeah my breastfeeding support group was great. I didn't encounter any of this kind of bollocks thankfully! They were a real lifeline.

When ds was little I had a friend who used to go on and on about the benefits of ebf and how her kid would be so healthy and she was protecting her from so much, I had another friend who argued bf and ff was the same and would make no difference, I kept my head down and ff.

6 years later ebf baby has eczema and keeps a bowl by her bed as she regularly gets stomach upsets and is sick for no reason. Eff baby has athsma eczema and a load of respiratory probelems has been hospitalized a quite a few times with various things. My eff baby has never had so much as an emergency GP appointment very healthy and resilient when he does catch anything.

I always tell this story because it shows nothing is guaranteed we all just need to do what we think is best and shut up about it so your not left looking like a numpty making silly claims that you can never be sure of.

Wait, I think I've misunderstood the virgin gut theory slightly - I thought it was just being free of bacteria but apparently it's more than that.

Oh well. I think it's still mostly bollocks

That's not a support group, it's a cult.

Some people who breast feed like to feel superior to those who don't. Ignore!!

Not supportive and not helpful. Supporting women in their breastfeeding journey means helping then continue for as long as they want to, and if that means combi-feeding when necessary. I have no problems with people dispelling myths (baby's hungry when cluster feeding, formula makes babies sleep better etc.) but berating someone for giving their baby a bottle of formula for any reason after they've already done so isn't going to help anyone.

They are talking bollocks, and not very supportive at all.

As someone else say, a 'virgin gut' applies to anything that baby takes orally. This includes the oral vitamin K and it also includes the glucose they offer as a comfort measure before administering the heel prick test. There are any number of very good medical reasons why babies need to ingest things orally, including formula and any number of medicines. However true it may be, it's unlikely many babies have a 'virgin gut' so beside the point. It sounds like just people talking rubbish to make themselves feel better about their choices. I have a friend who believes that babies should be taken away by social services if mums choose to formula feed (yes, really, I'm serious). Of course, said friend also found breastfeeding so stressful and anxiety-producing (even though she did it for several years) that she developed mental health problems as a result and can no longer work and has really struggled....so anyway. You do you and find a more supportive group that's more evidence-based.

Ignore. Keep on with the bf and well done.

shakingmyhead please don’t use the term ‘nazi’ to describe women who are volunteering their time to help other women.
Nazis slaughtered and murdered millions of people, it’s hardly the same.

kellymom.com/ages/older-infant/delay-solids/

This is a useful link.
I help to run a BF support group and give up my time to do so.
We are trained to offer information and support, not advice.
We signpost mums to information and further help if nessesary and are there in the position of a ‘well informed friend’

Regardless if the lady is volunteering or not she was not being helpful or supportive making statements like that.
Looks like this lady needs more training and needs to understand the impact of her words on people.

Also hate the use of nazi to describe anything remotely dictatorial. Its minimising in the extreme.

Ultimately if you're not finding the group supportive then don't go. I will be eternally grateful to the bf counselling I received free of charge and provided with kindness and compassion.

They sound ridiculously extreme. Can you find a less extreme bf group? They definitely exist.

Virgin gut theory is unproven. I do remember reading there is some truth in it ie any food/drink can change the gut flora but some amount of BF can then repair it, plus, it's not like it's a disaster for infant health in the first place!

It is a shame but many BF groups have strong views either extreme pro BF with ff, solids before 6 months and one day, medicines etc being demonised or a strong adherence to attachment parenting principles. Neither of these mindsets are going to fit every mother so they can be offputting unfortunately.

If you can learn to recognise the difference between good BF advice and anti formula, or overly AP advice you will still get good info at these groups. Better than from most HCPs which is a shame really!

My group wasn’t like this, Thank goodness! But it was run by the local children’s centre and had midwife and HV support, so perhaps that helped to moderate things. Certainly I can imagine some of the attendees coming out with that sort of guff. I made some nice (non-guff-spouting) friends there.

It’s a shame that these sorts of groups shame women, ultimately we are all doing the best we can.

There are thoughtless and opinionated self important people everywhere. Unfortunately including bf support groups. The one I went to a couple of times turned me right off. One useless HV and a couple of domineering mums who shoved attachment parenting and baby wearing down everyone's throats. It was friendly enough, but there wasn't much tolerance from the mums for what I'd call middle of the road type parenting. E.g. putting baby in his own room was considered to result in permanent psychological damage. Which is clearly bollocks but they wouldn't have it any other way..

A friend of my started spouting off about how healthy I’d be if I ate 5 portions of fruit or veg a day. How rude of her! And how judgemental. Surely all that matters is I eat actual food? I can’t believe she would pass judgement on my like that. So unfair and cruel.