Extreme vegans presenting at DSs' school

[Tipsntoes]

DS1 is in lower sixth as part of their General Studies element (they call it something else but I forget!) they have guest speakers. This week it was what he describes as "extreme vegans". Apparently they gave a very one sided presentation about the evils of eating animal products, supported by lots of graphic images.

DS and his friends are outraged at being lectured to in this way and have spent the day having heated discussions and formulating a counter argument. AIBU to think this is exactly the reason the presenter was invited?

They are lucky. A few years ago my dcs school invited Katie Hopkins....

The thing that I don't think a lot of vegans realise is presenting themselves like this actually turns people away. Also not everyone is effected by the images the way they are.

I think it's far more effective and realistic to talk about cutting down and making different choices.

I am not vegan btw, but I used to work with a militant vegan who used to rant all day and the result was I never wanted a bacon sandwich more in my life I used to get so annoyed.

paperdoll - that's not correct, most normal eaters would not need to supplement B12 unless elderly. Vegans also need to be careful that they eat enough calcium too, as this also aids adsorption of vitamin D.

OP - hopefully they'll just see it for what it is and continue to eat a normal healthy diet that doesn't require supplementation.

A vegan is very likely to give a one sided presentation surely?

It would be surprising if there were no vegetarians in the year group. No religious diets. So surely there is a range of viewpoints present already. Plenty of material for a wide-ranging, nuanced, inclusive discussion.

Wow lucky them , had that age 11 when I went to secondary school.

Exactly lottie!

Ah... veganism.

I watched one of these films. Showed the treatment of fish, leather production, chicken farms, pigs etc.

It did have an emotional impact on me. Initially... but it soon lost its shock value.

I’m not sure why your son is outraged. But teaching children that there are different point of views and encouraging debate is a great thing imo.

He‘s almost an adult, as are his mates. Well able to hear different views and discuss and think.lsn‘t that what General Studies A level requires?

I'm not vegan or vegetarian but I don't want to see animals suffering. The students should have been given the option of not viewing the presentation if it could be distressing.

However, I do think it would be great to inform students that a vegan diet can be perfectly healthy and is an environmentally friendly option.

I'm not vegan or vegetarian but I don't want to see animals suffering. You do realise that statement is completely contradictory? Talk about cognitive dissonanance.

My friend is vegan for ethical reasons, but she does not preach to people. Very chilled. If you ask her, she will tell you, but if you don't ask her she won't mention anything. As it should be.

@TheLuminaries Yes I do realise. I also have difficulty associating going to work and money arriving in my bank account

If they were anything like the anti-animal testing people who used to protest my work, where all the images were from other countries with much laxer laws or from 30 years earlier or both, then I'd be unimpressed. There's plenty of good points in favour of veganism without anthropomorphising animals and certainly without outright misleading people.

I think this is a great idea and something more schools should do. Teenagers need to be exposed to exteme views at school and given the opportunity to formulate and debate their counter arguments. Having this experience will help them in the real world when exposed to extreme views; not to automatically accept what other people say. Good on your son and his friends for formulating some counter arguments.

It makes me really sad that Universities and colleges are becoming 'safe spaces' where different, sometimes extreme, ideas are not debated. We had debates about terrorism, abortion etc at college and I really feel they helped me to debate and challenge real extremists.

IME a lot of th graphic images used by vegans aren’t of conditions in the U.K. we have very high welfare standards in U.K. slaughterhouses, so if you eat British meat it’s fine.

I'm sure am eating British meat is fine... I only eat organic meat which has had a nice life...I'm not going to suppose their death is pleasant though.

I'm also sure if I kept chickens as pets eating their eggs wouldn't upset them too much...however most vegans would find that wrong for one reason or another.

I can see both viewpoints.
On the one hand they need to learn to deal with people who have different viewpoints and think critically about the information that they are presented with by such people. Plus, it sounds like it started a debate which is really good.
But, having said that, people who aggressively push their opinions at you are annoying as all Hell sometimes, and I can see why he might want to respond with his own viewpoints.

I'm not vegan or vegetarian but I don't want to see animals suffering

Huh?

I wouldn’t do it, always careful to show a balance of views. So if it was extreme anti-abortion views would it be ok to have a speaker on this, without another speaker to present an opposing view? It’s fine to have people express viewpoints but there’s always the danger of actual facts being misrepresented which can be harmful.

DS was surprised that such an organisation was invited to talk to them,

He sounds terribly self important

I think this is actually fine, people should know what is in their plate, and be more in tune with reality. And I am a meat eater, with a farmer family and I have seen the slaughter of the animals that I have eaten.

However, be ready for this argument to be used by forced birthers and their cornucopia of graphic pics. If vegans don't have to be nuanced, neither do they.

Ah, Reteacher101, I did not see your message! 😊 you made the point clearer than me!

Lottie: "He thinks the images were extreme - does he think they were real, or falsified? "
It might well be images like the ones used in an advertising campaign showing an almost completely flayed lamb as an example of where wool comes from. Except actually that really isn't what a sheared sheep should look like. (Unless the person shearing it is blind and drunk) www.peta.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/jonaweinhofenWOOLadPAP300.jpg. Or it could well be another image produced for advertising (like this one, it was part of an advertising shoot showing people holding props) in which it isn't meant to pretend to be real life images of animals but to represent their suffering. In which case it's accuracy and the graphic ness is up to debate...

However, I also agree that a lot of non-staged images of animal food production etc can be very unpleasant looking (either because they show animals suffering or the processing of carcasses which is always going to look unpleasant even if in its life the animal didn't suffer at all). Here (like frenchmind) I think it's perfectly reasonable for adults/young adults to see it and hear about it, although I don't think anyone should be forced to if they really don't want to see it.