to think that ballet doesn't deserve its elitist image?

[k2p2k2tog]

For the first time in my life last night I went to the ballet. My DD dances and she came with me, we saw Scottish Ballet do the Nutcracker. And it was amazing. Loved it. Live orchestra, stunning sets, sparkly costumes, great soloists and overall a good experience. DD was worried it would be hard to follow what was going on - she found it very easy to understand the story and was inspired by the fabulous dancers.

Our tickets were £14 each. This is not much more than going to the cinema, and half the price of panto tickets in Glasgow this year. Yes we could have paid more to sit in the grand circle but we had a very good, unrestricted view of what was happening on stage.

So why does ballet have this "posh" image when people are quite happy to pay £14 for a cinema ticket and popcorn, or £50 or more to see whoever's the latest pop star on tour?

A girl at dd's school had no dance experience at all before being spotted at an outreach scheme. Unfortunately she wasn't eligible for free full time training because she's not British & hadn't been resident in the U.K. long enough but if she had been it would have all been paid for.

It's not just the cost though is it, it's about whether you feel you fit in with the other people who go and whether you feel out of place at the ballet in your Primark outfit. I also hear lots of snobbery about people who don't know where to clap, I'm sure there's other stuff. I was brought up working class and although I've sort of made it to the middle classes I still feel that there are places that are "not for people like me".

Have you seen the price of the supporters replica strips footie fans wear? And I've never heard of any snobbery fir wearing non branded dancewear clothes but have seen kids be mercilessly teased for not having the correct branded replica kit.

I think the 'elitist' thing is more to do with participation than appreciation.

A teacher at school got me really, really into opera at the age of 12. I was a working class kid living in forces married quarters; both my parents left school at 15. I didn't find it 'posh' or 'hard to follow', just beautiful and dramatic and transporting. I didn't live anywhere near an opera house, and couldn't have afforded to go if I had - I just listened to records/radio and watched the occasional production when they were on BBC2 or C4.

The elitist bit came in when I decided I wanted to be an opera singer. Why not? I had a great voice and was soloist in the school choir. Because we couldn't afford singing lessons and lived miles away from anyone that could teach at that level, that's why not.

Still wish I could have gone for it...

I'd also like to add, people always comment that horseriding is elitist. As someone who was lucky to share a horse with someone as a kid for £4 a week I'd disagree! I paid for it with a paper round. And most of the people I know now who have a horse work in factories and spend every penny on their horse. I don't know how they do it. I go twice a months these days and my daughter has got the bug too. I'm lucky enough to be able to use all the child benefit money for activities.

I think that aspect will get worse Lord Trash now that many schools are cutting Arts provision.

Ds began singing opera at state FE college whilst doing A level music. A subject hecwas able to do because he got free instrumental lessons at state comp school & access to free county music ensembles and choirs.

Which is all being cut.

That should be dh, not Ds!!!!!

Dh then went on to free conservatoire opera training aged 19.

Eugh!!!!!! How awful! Jojo bows banned at all reputable dance schools I know.

Agreed, AlexanderHamilton, I'm very twitchy about music provision at the dc school - it's always hanging by a thread . My dc are lucky that I can afford private singing/instrumental lessons for them, plenty can't though.

I have never thought if it as 'posh' or 'elitist' but I know the sort of people you see on Jeremy Kyle don't ever go to ballet.

I have been to many. In London, in Paris, and in New York. Love the ballet

I'm really pleased your DD liked it so much, OP!

I am common as muck and had no real cultural experiences as a kid, but from somewhere/nowhere have acquired a love of dance.

It can be a bit intimidating or daunting worrying if you're going to follow the plot etc, but I do think the elitist image is slowly dying off, partly because dance companies and promoters themselves are more clued up now about things the OP mentions, like outreach and informative material/handouts.

Costwise, I do think people forget, or don't acknowledge, that other art forms like cinema and big exhibitions can be very expensive too (it's usually about £16–£18 now to see a big show at somewhere like the Tate galleries!). Not to mention sports that a lot of children do, like tennis and riding.

It depends where you go to some extent, too. I find the Royal Opera House and, to a lesser extent, the Coliseum rather expensive and a bit stuffy, but I tend to go to Sadlers Wells, where audiences are more mixed in terms of age/race etc and usually more relaxed.

Tickets near the back in the gods are £12, with a discount if you book two or more shows at the same time. It's obviously a bit far from the stage, and you occasionally don't see all the scenery or lighting effects depending on where you are, but for the money it's an astonishingly good deal. I've seen Rambert, New York City Ballet, Sylvie Guillem etc for about a tenner a time.

@clippedcasuals Dancing the Nutcracker. It’s on BBC iPlayer

I must admit, I hadn't realised that tickets for the Opera where so (relatively) cheap. Is it still justifiable that English Opera receives £57 million a year in grants, most of it spent in London?

Is it not due to its historical roots - i.e. time was that only the rich and upper class could afford to go to ballet and opera (hence it being London-centric traditionally), and you went to “be seen”, rather than watch, which is why the boxes around the stage used to be the most sought after tickets, even though they’re the worst seats in the theatre, as they face out rather than inwards, and have limited view of one side of the stage

igneococus
Well yes it is impossible to do both. Each Opportunity we choose to do something - it's never ballet. Ive taken the children, seen several myself, but would choose to do other stuff instead. I don't see it as elitist, just not very interesting.

I must admit, I hadn't realised that tickets for the Opera where so (relatively) cheap.

That's only a tiny handful of tickets though. It's still easy to spend £200 on an opera ticket.

I did ballet as a child and my family are most definitely not ‘posh’. It was probably made cheaper by the fact that most performance costumes weren’t bought but made by long suffering mothers sweating over sewing machines for hours.

Thanks Fenella

bluetongue and that's great.

My DD costs me £250 a month in ballet costs. Shoes alone cost £75 and need replacing every 4 weeks.

If people think opera is complicated, they've never seen Eugene Onegin. Plot you could write on the back of a fag packet but manages to take 3.5 entertaining hours.

I think both opera and ballet is seen as elitist even though personally I don't think it should be. It's about accessibility, affordability but with participation. People can probably afford to see it more easily than take part. If you can't afford to take part, you don't always develop the interest.

My son would be a great dancer. He dances all the time, but I can't afford to pay for on going lessons. However, I can afford cheap tickets occasionally. But it's a bit, here's what you could have done if we had more money. It's all a bit shit but that's life sometimes.

Yanbu.

We've been to the RoH a couple of times. Nutcracker tickets were £20 each, the same as our local panto. Most people took their own sandwiches for the interval and we sat on the carpets in the corridor to eat them. I'm a LP and my dc's don't even do ballet but they enjoy watching it. The Nutcracker Snowflakes and Romeo & Juliet Dance of the Knights are amazing.

I'm lucky in that ds tennis lesson £4 an hour dd s dancing 16 pound a week but that includes a private lesson and fees have only gone up twice in the 14 years she's been dancing.

As others have said CATS training at northern ballet is free if on a low income.

Most kids who I know who play football are not at that sort of level and are going to small local clubs or holiday training schemes organised by the FA or SFA

Sure, and DS before academy played for a local club that he also paid nothing for. No match fees, training fees or kit fees. All funded by the club through charity events held. I appreciate this often isn’t the case, but in general as an activity, (not as a spectator at premiership games!) Football is way, way cheaper than ballet or many other elitist extra curricular activities.

Sure - replica football shirts cost ££ but you hardly need them to play!!

No I see where you're coming from - anyone can play football by taking a ball to the local park. The same can't be said for ballet.

I still don't think though that it deserves its posh image as it is accessible in terms of price and location when you compare it to other things like theatre, panto, pop concerts and sporting events.