To not make DD go with Ex (pregnancy loss related)

[rubbishandunsure]

Sorry there is so much background I will try and keep it short.
I met ex as a teenager. We married and had DD a few years later. Then when DD was 1 we found out I was pregnant again however the baby was stillborn. Ex wanted to start trying for another baby straight after it happened. But I wasn't ready and I just couldn't get over losing the baby. Ex kept pushing and wanting a baby more and more. I became very depressed and anxious. Then one day without warning I came home to a note from ex saying he was leaving me and had taken DD and wasn't bringing her back. I eventually got in contact with Ex and he said it was my fault he was leaving because I wouldn't have another baby with him and he was going to make a new family without me.

I then had a mental health breakdown and ended up in hospital. Ex ended up leaving DD at my mum's for her to look after for most of the time I was in hospital. I had counselling and medication and eventually recovered. I began to realise that ex could be quite controlling and I began to enjoy my freedom. I took ex to court and gained 50/50 custody of DD.

I then met DH and we married during this time EX got a better job and began to have more holidays and nights out and asked to reduce his contact with DD to 2 weekends a month and one evening a week. So we went back to court and change the arrangement to this.
We have had a few problems mostly because he takes DD to his mum's on the weekend and then doesn't see her which used to upset her a bit. He would also sometimes miss the evenings he was supposed to have her.

So DD is now 7. In September I found out I was pregnant with a baby who is due next month. It has hit me pretty hard and I have been very anxious however DH has been extremely supportive and has really helped with DD.

We told DD and then I called ex and told him that I was pregnant before he had to find out from DD. He went mad saying that I had messed him around and he was angry that I lied to him. I tried to explain that I didn't lie that it was an accident and that he left me. He started shouting abuse down the phone and finished by telling me that he wasn't going to see DD ever again. He hung up then sent a text saying that he didn't want to see DD anymore and its all my fault. He then didn't see DD for a month.

Eventually he got back in contact and said he wanted to see DD again. However a few weeks after contact started again DD was misbehaving and just not herself. Initially she wouldn't talk to me and then one night she broke down and told me that ex had been saying that I was a horrible person and that I was only having a baby to be mean to him and if he stopped seeing her it was my fault.
I reassured her as best I could and the next time she saw him he only had her a couple of hours then brought her home because she was really upset and had called him names and wouldn't stop crying. After he left she calmed down and revealed that ex had told her that I was making a new family without her and when she told him that I said that she would always be my family he had told her to shut up and said that DD and I were liars and so she became upset and lost it with him.

Then he stopped turning up for contact and wouldn't reply to messages and he didn't even drop off a Christmas present for DD.
However DD said she is glad and doesn't want to see him ever again because she hates him.

Ex messaged me yesterday asking for contact this weekend with no explanation for his absence. I told him that this wasn't good enough and he had really upset DD and he needed to apologise to her and make her feel happy to see him again because she doesn't want to see him. He replied hours later with a massive message saying how hard it has been for watching me be pregnant and how he thought he would have a big family by now but that it hasn't happened for him and how hard watching me and DH and DD is because we look like a family and he left me because he wanted that but I ended up doing it instead. I replied reminding him that DD loved him and he was a part of her family and he just needed to make a bit of an effort with her.

He then replied this morning saying his long earlier message was just a joke while he was drunk and that he just said it so he could see DD and didn't mean any of it.

He wants to pick DD up for contact today (friday) as normal but when I mentioned that he might be coming round to DD tonight she said she doesn't want to see him any more and she won't go with him tomorrow even if he is sorry because he doesn't even play with her when he picks her up anyway so what's the point.

So now I'm unsure what to do. I don't want to force her to see ex. But then he won't be happy when she won't go with and he will probably kick off and then contact his solicitors because we have breached the contact agreement. However he has broken the contact many times recently so really we would both be at fault. Equally he may be struggling with me being pregnant however it could also be that he is lying to me to try to emotionally blackmail me which he has done a lot in the past.

So would I be unreasonable to not make DD go with him tomorrow or should I make her go?

I’m so sorry you and your DD are having to deal with this man. He sounds extremely emotionally abusive.

I don’t have any advice but wish you a happy and healthy rest of your pregnancy.

No please don’t make her go. Her experience with her father is so very traumatic and if he does go back to court you can be very clear in detailing what has gone on. I’m so sorry you lost your baby, it’s a huge thing that you’ve come through all of that. But now it needs to be about your daughter and what she needs - and her father needs to be shown his behaviour is not going to be tolerated.

No, of course you wouldn't. If she doesn't want to see him her feelings have to be taken into account. Speak to your solicitor first thing in the morning, explain what's happened and get their advice - they may advise you taking him back to court to amend the agreement based on her wishes

She doesn’t want to go for very good reasons. You need to stop caring how he feels, he left, he was pressuring you into a pregnancy that you were not ready for. He’s an abusive arse and he’s emotionally abusing your child to get at you.

I’d go seek some advice on the best way to handle this from a legal standpoint - but I think from what you say, and how unreliable he is she is better off without him around.

If you’re feeling generous you could say that he had bridges to build with his daughter as he had really upset her, and suggest letters, emails or phone contact to show he had her welfare at heart, and build up to visits again, before you hand her over again.

Don't make her go. You have good reason to suspend contact in order to protect your child's mental health.

I can't see the court being thrilled with his behaviour - he has repeatedly broken the order prior to today so he's not in a great position to be making demands.

Someone with better knowledge of custody arrangements will no doubt post soon.

"But then he won't be happy when she won't go "

Please stop making it about his happiness and put your DO first.

What he says to her is emotional abuse. If you make her have contact you are minimising that and teaching her that she doesn't matter.

Leave him to go back to Court. He will have to justify breaking contact and he will be asked about the emotional abuse, which is now an offence.

He is emotionally blackmailing you and there is an element of abuse towards you.

He will destroy your DD's mental health if you make her see him.

I will call my solicitors in the morning and see what they say from a legal point of view. but ex will still turn up tomorrow expecting DD to go with him and its very unlikely that she will change her mind and want to go with him and even if she did I would be very reluctant to let her go anyway.

Can you and your daughter be somewhere else for a few hours around the time of the pick up?

He is emotionally abusive, behaving erratically and there were red flags in your relationship
He also might want to get back at you

Refuse contact today but let him know that a more supervised and supportive contact is fine by you. Until he builds trust and bridges with his daughter and she is comfortable once more contact must be on your terms for her emotional safety.

Explain the emotional abuse to the Solicitor.

A Court will usually put conditions in place, when what you describe has been going on.

I would be somewhere else, or just ignore the door.

Don't make her go, you don't know his state of mind.

She is getting to an age were her views will be listened to by the Court.

I am so sorry you lost your baby and have been put through all this.

I agree with others. You need to put her needs first.

He has obviously had a hard time of things too but that was many years ago and he chose to end the marriage and has now chosen to emotionally abuse his daughter.

You need to centre her needs and get the solicitors to see that this is emotionally damaging for her.

I also think that bearing in mind he did this.... "Then one day without warning I came home to a note from ex saying he was leaving me and had taken DD and wasn't bringing her back." I would not be keen to continue contact with him in an emotional state about your pregnancy. I really think you need to keep copies of all abusive emails/texts and write down word for word what your dd says he has said to her.

Good luck, I hope the pregnancy and birth goes well and your dd enjoys being a big sister.

You need to both be out when he arrives to pick her up.

And if he kicks off then please call the police

Thank you for replying I called my solicitors and explained everything that had happened. I am meeting them next week to talk through it properly. However they said that considering that he wasn't sticking to the arrangement anyway but that I should message him telling him that he can't see DD today due to what happened and that I think he needs to take it slow and apologise to DD over the phone and build up trust before he sees her in person.
I sent ex the message but he hasn't replied.

I then got a call from DDs school saying she had fallen during lunch and although they thought she wasn't hurt she was really upset and they were struggling to calm her down. (I had told them we were having problems with her dad and to call me if they were having problems)
So I went to the school and I managed to calm her down and she admitted she was more worried that her dad would come and shout at her again because she had got her stuff dirty when she fell. I reassured her that we won't see ex today and we will go out to tea instead. She calmed down and went back to class for the rest of the day.

A lot of what you say is very much based on him and his wants and his reactions - I have no idea why you feel the need to put him first.

the new baby has nothing to do with him, or how he feels, those are his issues not yours.

He sounds mentally unstable

Print out the messages and pass them to your solicitors for safe keeping

Poor DD, I really feel for her. Her dad is an idiot. The fact that you were able to help her become calm by telling her she won't be seeing him says it all really.

Hope you have a good tea with

Keep all messages from him as evidence. Your daughters feelings should be taken into account she doesn’t need to go anywhere she doesn’t want to.
Your pregnancy is also nothing to do with him. You don’t have to explain that it was an accident at all. It may be that you are now ready for a child with your new partner who is probably not EA like your ex is. You don’t have to explain anything to your ex. You already did more than enough by letting him know before your DD did.

Your ex is a cunt and it feels like you don't realise this? The way you talk about him is so calm and measured but he's been vile to you and your DD. Please, this man will shatter her self esteem messing her around, picking her up and dropping her and shouting at her on top and feeding her lies to give her anxiety.
He left YOU. He doesn't get to play the injured party because you've moved on and he can't find anyone willing to put up with his shit

It sounds like you're having a tough time of it right now OP, so I'm glad you have access to a solicitor.

Assuming you go back to the courts over this, they'll still give him some custody, so try and facilitate him apologising to her over the phone.

But definitely don't let her go to his and, going forward, don't tell him anything about your pregnancy

Don’t send her to him for now. Wait and go back to court.

What she wants comes first and not what her moron of a father wants.
Just make sure she’s happy, that’s really what matters

He has broken the contact agreement- you are not obliged to resume it just because he feels like it. The onus is on him to get it back to court if he wants the arrangement to resume.

OP how awful for your daughter to be treated like that by her father and he definitely has making up to do before he gets to see her. Luckily she has yours and your DH's support. Hope all goes well with your solicitor

You are the most important person in your DD’s life and always will be. Don’t let her down by making her go to her manipulative excuse for a father. Put your foot down now and tell anyone who’ll listen that if she doesn’t want to see her father she’s not going to and that’s that.

I hope you’ve kept all the messages from him? I think you’ll need them.