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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Witness at a trial

23 replies

Justridiculous · 03/01/2018 09:32

Have NC for this.

Not really an AIBU but need urgent advice.

Someone that I know, currently studying for a professional qualification, witnessed a crime in the summer. He gave a statement to police and was asked if he would ask to attend court if necessary. He has heard nothing more since then. He is now due to go abroad for 2 weeks as part of his studies. The week before Christmas he received a call telling him that he is required to give evidence right in the middle of his trip abroad. The court official was not particularly sympathetic when he said he could not attend but said they would inform the CPS. He has now been told that the CPS will tell him the day before he is due to leave whether he will be summonsed or not.

The university are not being at all sympathetic and are making it clear that he has to go on this trip.

AIBU in thinking that this is just not fair? This person is a witness, not the defendant. He is, of course, willing to attend but it can't be right that his whole life should be disrupted for this. Can anyone advise what his rights are here? No one asked him what dates he was unavailable on.

Thank you for any advice you can give. Can he contact the CPS himself?

OP posts:
DillyDilly · 03/01/2018 09:34

Would it be possible for the University to white a letter for the CPS outlining why it’s important that the college trip goes ahead ?

StickThatInYourPipe · 03/01/2018 09:38

I was summoned to court when I was 16as a witness for a fight, I had one of my GCSEs he day of the hearing so my mum just told them I wouldn’t be attending, they said that I may not Be able to miss it but we never heard futher.

StickThatInYourPipe · 03/01/2018 09:39

Sorry for terrible spelling and grammar! My phone is smashed and not working well

Vanillaradio · 03/01/2018 09:41

Yes agree he needs as much written evidence as possible as to where he'll be and why. If cps are to try to change date they will need to apply to court who will want written proof. Is he in touch with witness care? Email to them directly anything he has.

kaytee87 · 03/01/2018 09:42

He needs a letter from the college.
Could he give evidence by video link?

Original poster
Justridiculous · 03/01/2018 09:46

The issue now is that the CPS will tell him the day before he leaves if they intend to summons him.

I am assuming that if he is summonsed he will have to attend? At the moment the case will still be happening on that date but he doesn't know if he has to attend.

I will suggest that he asks the university to write to the court.

It's so ridiculous - this could have been avoided if they had asked him for his availability. I just cannot believe that he will be expected to forfeit his university course to attend this 1 day case when he is just a witness.

OP posts:
SJS12 · 03/01/2018 09:51

It all depends if the evidence he gives is crucial. I was a witness for a case but on the day I wasn't required to speak, they just read my statement because I wasn't a first hand witness.

I suppose it's probably down to the judge at the end of the day

Original poster
Justridiculous · 03/01/2018 09:52

Thank you.

He is in touch with witness care but they don't appear particularly sympathetic. He has just spoken to them this morning and they said the trial has to go ahead ASAP because the defendant is on remand but surely this isn't the witness' fault?

He has provided written evidence of the booking and itinerary for the trip. I will ask him to get a letter from uni. They are not being that helpful either, saying that he has a big decision to make and that his course depends on him going. (I think this is unfair too. Someone has to relent.)

It's very sad because he has said that in future he would look the other way and not get involved and that isn't right. Surely as a witness he should be treated properly?

OP posts:
Vanillaradio · 03/01/2018 09:54

It seems very random that cps will decide that the day before he leaves? Has he been told why it will not be looked at before then? If he will lose his uni place if he doesn't go then that needs to be in the letter.
Please ask him to send written evidence to witness care asap and ask them to ask cps to look at it quicker now he had provided this.
If he is witness summoned then he can still choose not to attend however he will then be in contempt of court and the court can choose to have him arrested and brought to court to explain himself. This doesn't always happen but is always a risk....
To avoid this happening he needs to get in contact with witness care, provide his docs and ask for it to be looked at again quicker. There are other options for cps to consider not just summons.

Original poster
Justridiculous · 03/01/2018 10:02

He has been constantly chasing witness care since he heard, the week before Christmas. It hasn't helped that uni has been shut the entire time and obviously the court and CPS have been closed for some of the time. It takes ages between him contacting witness care and them getting back to him and they just tell him that they have to wait for CPS to get back to them. Finally today they have said that CPS have said they will tell him on Thursday next week whether they intend to summons him, but this is the day before he leaves. They have only given 5 or 6 weeks notice of the trial happening.

He is worried that if he ignores any summons that he will then get some sort of penalty. He needs an enhanced DBS for the qualification that he is studying for can't risk any charges.

I will tell him to speak to witness care and ask that this is looked at urgently.

OP posts:
SheGotOffThePlane · 03/01/2018 10:07

Are you in Scotland? I was in a similar situation and called the procurator fiscal's office to explain why I couldn't attend. I was given an email address to write to to detail why I was unable to help on that given day (was actually my wedding anniversary and we were booked to go away for a week). I got an email back the next day confirming the court date would be changed and I would be reissued with a fresh citation for the recalled date.

Velvetbee · 03/01/2018 10:10

That sounds really crap. DS was attacked over the summer, he's a barman and intervened when 2 customers tried to strangle another.
The Witness Care team have been brilliant, have kept in touch regularly and wrote just before Christmas asking for dates of exams/holidays etc. for the next 12 months so they can schedule court dates.

1stX · 03/01/2018 10:12

Witness care probably won’t know how vital his evidence is and will have been instructed to warn him. Maybe try contacting the officer in the case and see if they can speak to CPS directly about whether or not he is needed

SingSam · 03/01/2018 10:21

yes I agree with 1stX. I was a witness and the court date got moved a lot. They can never really tell when you are going to be needed. The police had an idea how vital the evidence was (the CPS were a bit clueless but my CPS person only actually saw the case the day it actually went to court fgs).

they don't know how long the cases before will take - how long the defence lawyers will question other witnesses. In the end, I was 'on call' for around 2 weeks and eventually in court for 2 days.

if he is a key witness, it's likely they will move the case but it does seem odd that the university won't give way at all....I would have thought this was quite important (the court case). I don't think he can ignore a summons.

blackteasplease · 03/01/2018 10:23

Is it possible for him to get to somewhere where he could video link to court f4om his trip? They will do that now.

DoItAgainBob · 03/01/2018 10:28

I've also had a court date changed to to a pre-booked holiday. I showed evidence of flights and booking dates and it was rescheduled.

KayaG · 03/01/2018 10:29

This makes sad reading. I'd think twice before agreeing to be a witness if it was going to mess up my holidays.

Original poster
Justridiculous · 03/01/2018 10:42

Ok so he has now managed to speak to university and they are going to write a letter stating that this trip is vital for his course and he is going to phone witness care to ask that CPS review this quickly. (I've told him to follow up with an email too).

How would he go about contacting the police about this? My feeling is that someone has dropped the ball and hasn't contacted witnesses to check availability and that they are now trying to apply pressure to make them attend. Maybe the police would be more helpful but don't know who he would contact?

OP posts:
RavingRoo · 03/01/2018 10:43

Just tell him to go to the university. The cps will find a way to get his statement when they’re pushed

1stX · 03/01/2018 10:47

He needs to call 101. If he doesn’t know who the officer in the case is he needs to provide any dates/ locations etc. If he has a reference number for the crime or the trial that’s the best bet. He should do this ASAP though.

bunbunny · 04/01/2018 00:15

Shocked at the way both the court and the university are behaving in this instance.

If you are doing a university degree that has a compulsory period of time away that is relatively short (it's not like your ds is disappearing for a year) and by missing it you will not qualify which will have big knock on consequences on your life, your job, etc etc then it is massively unreasonable of the court to expect you to put that aside and wait around in case he is needed without seemingly being bothered by consequences. Certainly you'd have thought it would have been sensible of them to ask for problematic dates beforehand to take them into account. It's not like your ds is having problems swapping a shift or had a trivial reason for not wanting to go on that date - it's not even that it's a booked holiday which would mean he would lose out on holiday time or financially or be inconvenienced in some way - which would be annoying but might have to go down as one of those things.
But something this important - they really need to have a protocol for changes. What would have happened if he was was scheduled a long awaited operation and refusing meant going to the back of the waiting list? Or if it was a dd who was due to give birth around then and found themselves in hospital because babies come to their own schedule - you can't just say hang on, you'll have to come next week, I'm due in court at some point this week. Or there must be other instances when you really can't go.

Likewise the university should have been much more supportive to your ds - providing an official letter to say how they will fail your ds if he doesn't go - and asking for the court to select a different date.

Likewise the uni must have some protocol for not failing students who don't go for a very valid reason - what if they get appendicitis the week before they should have gone or an Icelandic volcano erupts shutting down all air traffic so nobody goes?

I don't usually reckon on parents getting involved with dealing with things for their student dc - but in a case like this I would be tempted to help out by trying to ring people at the court and uni to find out who else your ds could call to help get this predicament sorted. I would also maybe try to think around who else should be able to help - some MPs can be very helpful at speaking to people to get things sorted when things have gone quiet for example.

Not to say that you should take over from your ds but do this in addition to what he is doing. Also help with calls if he is always in lectures and not able to phone as much as he'd like.

Good luck to him - hope he gets it sorted and gets away in his course trip!

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 04/01/2018 01:38

Thus happened to me... I was a professional witness to an assault.
I was called around days of exams.... I was subpoenad.... The uni moved the exam (luckily one only I sat...).
Don't ignore a summons /subpoena

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