to ask what you're doing to reduce your use of plastics?

[k2p2k2tog]

Lots of coverage on the BBC yesterday about how we used to ship loads of plastics for recycling to China, and China have said they aren't taking it any more.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42455378

Of course recycling is a good thing. But that should come third after reduce and reuse.

Plastics are an environmental nightmare - we can't avoid all plastics but we can certainly reduce what we're using. I've just ordered reusable sandwich wraps for the kids to take to school rather than wrapping in cling film. Little steps. If everyone does a little bit, we can reduce the total amount of plastics.

So what are you doing???

Not arguing with everything - just thinking critically. So your tomatoes come in a plastic bag? Point?

Agree about the supermarkets being some of the main culprits. Why on earth do we need aisles of plastic-bottled drinks for goodness sake. Noone needs to buy bottled water as part of their grocery shop AT ALL. We are fortunate in this country to have some of the best, cleanest water out of our taps. Also fruit and veg on silly plastic trays gets my goat. I'm seriously trying to avoid shopping as much in the supermarkets. Why can't our supermarkets be more like the French ones where fruit and veg are mostly loose. Oh I could go on and on...

You are arguing.

Yes, like you I haven't seen them loose although if mushrooms can come loose I see no reason why they couldn't. So if I am shopping in a supermarket I am forced to buy plastic packaging.

However your argument was that they only use the amount of packaging necessary. This is incorrect as evidenced by this photo compared to the other.

crafty

So it would be totally beyond the wit of you to buy lose tomatoes and then put them into a Tupperware box or china bowl in the fridge to stop them being squished?

Are you actually Donald Trump and determined to prove that environmental issues are a myth and Black is white?

I don’t see how that helps anything. A box will take up more room in my fridge and will then need to be washed.

Plastics are not bad. They use up byproducts of the oil industry which would otherwise need to be buried. What do you propose we do with ethene, propene, etc?

Crafty there are actually a few gaps in the Trump administration atm. You should make an approach..

How amusing.

Not need to be washed?!?!

Well that changes everything
Let's keep killing ocean life with plastic, because otherwise crafty would have to rinse out a tupperware pot

Washing (energy and detergent) cost are all part of a life-cycle analysis.

My cherry tomatoes comes with a little recyclable paper tray in addition to plastic film that theTPA’s cherry tomatoes come with. Neither film is recyclable, and I dispose of mine responsibly where it won’t end up in the ocean.

CraftyGin, you make a fair nuanced point about the issue of food waste through insufficient food packaging for protection. A wasted lettuce isn't just about the lettuce going into the compost pile where it rots benignly into new soil... it's about the whole supply chain that went into producing the lettuce in the first place. Agricultural chemicals, fertiliser, farm diesel, transportation, warehouse running costs etc etc. But you seem totally blind to alternative solutions like having returnable plastic tubs that can be reused by the retailers, or bring one's own containers from home. A switch from the supermarket model which pretty much depends for its business model on prepackaged goods to more farmers' markets, greengrocer/butcher stalls at railway hubs to get the commuter trade on the way home from work etc etc.

I remember I used to get pick and mix cherry tomatoes from Tesco, so it's perfectly possible that all the big retailers can cut back massively on prepackaged produce. If I'd had my reusable produce bags then, it would have been zero waste from the end consumer part of the supply chain.

And I can't quite understand your desire to only buy cherry tomatoes in a plastic tray. But you object to buying them loose and putting them into your own tupperware tub. Just pack them at the top of the bag with the eggs. Both take up the same amount of room in the fridge!

Crafty You can't possibly know that. You presumably put it into recycling. Where it is taken by your council who have a contract with a private company for disposal. A very large amount of that ends up being shipped overseas where you cannot possibly know what happens to it. Much is dumped.

You could take steps to reduce the amount you use. But you won't so others have to work harder to offset this.

You're not going to convince anyone that a splash of water to dampen a cloth to wipe out your tupperware has the same impact on the environment as your plastic tray and wrapping.

If that floats your boat, Bah, then wonderful.

For me, I am not motivated to take plastic boxes to the supermarket in order to avoid the little paper tray in cherry tomatoes. I don’t think I am alone in this as it is not something I have ever seen other people doing.

I remember back in the 70s taking empty egg boxes to the shop. It would be madness to buy eggs without this protective packaging.

I don’t really want to buy loose produce that other people have pawed and rejected, If I go to the market, the greengrocer does all the handling, not everyone and his brother.

You might think loose produce is superior but I don’t see any meaningful advantage, but I can see a disadvantage.

Refuse does not get shipped overseas. I believe there are international treaties to prevent this.

I trust my Borough council to dispose of my refuse as they say they will. They are not cowboys.

The little bit of card from my cherry tomatoes will go to a MRF where clever air jets will unite it with other bits of card. It will then be baled up and sent for paper recycling.

Even if it ended up in the ocean, I doubt it would do much harm.

Recycling does indeed get sent overseas for processing. Youre simply wrong.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42455378

I visited our council tip today which always has a big sign up saying what proportion of waste was either recycled (possibly some went abroad?) or burnt to make energy.
For November the percentage was 86%. So 14 % went to landfill I presume.

Not great but a few years ago the percentage being recycled was about 30% so vast strides have been made.

Anyone know if this statistic is similar in other councils?
Ours seem quite hot and all food waste gets composted which is excellent IMO and I'm surprised to hear not all councils do this (we have separate food/green waste collections that go straight to be composted)

Recycling can be sent overseas, but not refuse. Any landfilling has to be done in the source country.

Ours is similar - high 80s.

I think you're deliberately changing/nuancing your position on each post crafty We are clearly talking about plastics. You stated that you dispose responsibly of your plastic tray from your cherry tomatoes which you can't possibly live without and it doesn't go overseas. Then suddenly its a little piece of cardboard and then you're saying only recycling gets sent overseas.

So we're back to your plastic tray being sent overseas where you can't possibly know what happens to it.

Anyway you can't win em all. I think we can all accept that you're going to do bugger all.

frazzled
Here are the stats from my local council
1.4% of total waste goes to landfill but only 44% is being recycled, composted or reused.
I assume that means a lot is being incinerated?

I'm also surprised to see the total waste per household figure has gone up in recent years but I suspect attitudes like Crafty's are more widespread than on this thread

http://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/info/200256/housingandcommunityservicesdepartment/464/recyclingandwastestatisticsand_information/22*

I’m not changing anything, and I will correct you and say that my cherry tomatoes have a card tray. I’ve been quite consistent about that. AFAIK, paper is recycled in this country.

As for plastics being recycled off-shore, they are sent to reputable and inspected places, you know.

Other countries have waste management licences too (which is how China has managed to stop imports).

Recycling and materials recovery can be highly specialised, and it depends on Economics - whether the resale value of the recovered materials is greater than the energy or disposal costs. For this reason, there may be only a few places worldwide that recover certain materials, eg Tetrapak containers are sent from MRFs to a facility in Norway that is able to separate the foil/plastic/paper layers.

My attitude? Do expand...

We always snip beer can holders, so circles are broken

refuse does not get shipped overseas

www.biffa.co.uk/about-us/operational-infrastructure/refuse-derived-fuel/

Good news this morning that the government are talking of a "latte levy" - rather than coffee chains offering a 25p discount to those taking their own cups, they are proposing switching things round so that if you don't have a reusable one, you pay 25p extra.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42564948

2.5 BILLION disposable coffee cups chucked away every year. Totally depressing.