Is it legal to have bars on the windows of a ground floor flat?

[SpiritedAweigh]

ExH lives in a ground floor flat. It's a block of flats and there is only one door. His front door leading onto a corridor or other residents front doors.

Every window in the house is covered in bars. Not unlockable, but attached the the window frame with screws, for security reasons I presume.

Only if there was a fire and the main (only) exit was blocked there is no quick escape bar getting a screwdriver out to remove the bars. Totally impractical of course.

Since the Grenfell Tower accident and also the flat fire in Manchester today I can't help worrying about fire and what would happen if there was one when my kids stay over.

Can he ask the landlord to remove them?

Google photo for similar refence

I’m not sure but I’d hate to let children stay there too.

my friend recently sold her cottage and was told that a bedroom window had to be replaced because it was impossible to climb out of.

I guess this comes down to what's the bigger risk, fire or someone breaking in when the kids are there. I'd sssume bars on the windows indicated a high security risk.

I agree with Bluntness. Depending on which area it’s in, I’d feel that bars make it safer. Maybe because I have experienced a break in (while asleep in the house) and not a fire.

I remember looking round student accommodation in Nottingham that had bars on the windows like that.

Very off putting.

If there was a fire in the main hall or in his own flats hall the only exit would be blocked and there would be no way out. His front door is the only escape path.

The kitchen, living rooms and bedroom windows all have these permanent bars on them with no way to get out of the window.

It's really starting to get to me.

WIBU to not allow them to stay there until the bars are removed?

Thats the flip side isnt it? Its not the best area but i live in the same area and havent got any bars on my windows. But then again even if i did i have a back door and 2 points of exit.

They look terrible, devalue the property, and as you point out impede fire evacuation, but I would assume they are there as a necessity due to a terrible area.

Maybe he can discuss with the landlord what can be done in the event of a fire?

Surely there must be regulations regarding escape in the event of fire though?

Looks like a prison. How depressing and not very fire safe. Is it a high crime area?

It's a depressing flat. But on benefits it's all he can afford privately in the area. Waiting lists for council properties are impossibly long.

We live in South Manchester.

Are you sure there isnt a mechanism that allows the removal of some of the bars from the inside - they slot out of the frame if you see what I mean? Otherwise, they should be fitted externally. Impossible to remove from outside but can be kicked outwards in an emergency.

No Norma. I looked. They are just solid iron bars screwed into the framework.

Even without the bars how would anyone get out of the window in the photo? It looks to have just a narrow opening at the top, and unless I'm seeing things, it also looks like reinforced glass, which has wire running through it in little squares so it won't actually break if someone tries to smash it.

Presumably the apartment has a fire door?

Yeah, I think concern about fire escape is justified. That said it might be legal? When our landlord fitted new double glazing to our house a few years back the upstairs windows had to have non-locking handles for fire escape reasons, but the downstairs ones lock.

If they are attached with screws, surely ExH can physically remove (or at least unscrew) them himself.

If there's no fire door or escape from the back of the flat, that's a fire trap.

I know people in Newcastle who have done this, and who have reinforced front doors, after repeated break-ins. Fire & Rescue take a dim view - because if a seasoned burglar can't get in, then neither can they to rescue you when you're unconscious from smoke inhalation - but being repeatedly burgled does actually do your nut in.

I would advise him to ask the fire service to come and do an assessment and have the Landlord there while they carry it out. There is no way this is meeting fire regulations.

chrys your missing the bit where OP says that's a Google picture for reference ie that it's not the actual window,

His front door may well be a fire door which should the fire be outside the flat yes they can stay in the flat protected by the fire door normally up until about an hour, but if the fire is within the flat the fire door is going to protect the rest of the building and leave the Ops ex and possibly children without an escape route.

I don't know wether you'll be able to get it removed, but you can go through the landlord. Would removing staying over night break court agreements?

You should check with Shelter or, possibly, local fire officer.

Not all dwellings need two escape routes. In purpose built blocks of flats the approach is normally to protect the main exit out - so all flats should have fire doors (which stops fire spreading out of one flat) and the main corridor and stair wells are designed and built with non-combustible material. The idea is that a fire couldn’t rage outside his door blocking off that route of escape. I believe this is one reason why it’s so important not to have things (like buggies) in communal areas in blocks of flats - it compromises fire safety for everyone. Of course, being on the ground floor, having windows be additional escape routes seems sensible, but I suspect the same rules will apply to his ground floor flat as apply to higher ones if the building is more than two stories.

Sorry, that should say - “You should check with Shelter or, possibly, local fire officer because I am not an expert, but I believe... “

Donny (above) seems to have suggested one of few doable ways to address the problem.

I bought fire masks from amazon for our family. We keep them by the bed after seeing a programme on fire dangers.

I understand your concerns and it is certainly worth a conversation but I'm sorry, you lost me when you spoke about not "allowing" your kids to stay there. They are his kids too - you don't get to make every decision.

Toes, on weekends he could come stay with the kids at mine. We're good friends. Just because I'm worried about them being in the flat doesn't mean I would stop their time together.

There's no court involved in our seperation. We get along great so there's no need.

I spoke to him this morning and he agrees it's no ideal and said he wants to move anyway, been thinking of it for months so we're going to look into new flats in the new year and hopefully can find sonething he can afford.

OP, that sounds really sensible. Good luck, all of you.