To try and have it all - flexible working

[MomtoOneMarvelousBubba]

Im going back to work next week after 11 months off - thinking of it nakes me feel sick. My only consolation is i know im not the first now will be last to do this.my wuestion is, AIBU to want to work from home two days a week and leave from work an hour early the other three days, so i can pick up dd at the end of the day leaving enough time to actually spend a tiny bit of wual time together?!

I proposed this setup to work and they declined saying its good to be seen in the office!

Anyway im not on her to moan but actually to get some guidance. Has anyone got any tips on how to negotiate this? Bear in mind i asked (albeit at short notice) if i could delay my return by three days so i could take care of dds settling in days and they said they would let me know but neber did!!

IME it very much depends on your manager. I requested 2 WAH days when I went back after mat leave - other people in the dept (but different teams) did similair. Some even worked from different countries and only came in for a week in every month.

Despite us all doing the same work (albeit on different projects) It wasnt possible for me to do 2 days from home. The official line was "Business need" with no further explanation but I was told off the record that my female, mysogynistic boss had said that she didnt get to WAH when her kids were little so why should I.

The men in my team were able to WAH no questions asked.

Needless to say, I left my job of 9 years 6mths after returning

You need to put it in terms that suggest some form of benefit, or at least not a problem, for your employer. For example I asked for one day a week and explained that there was a particular role within my job that would be done better without distractions and I could focus on that when working from home.

Cutting short your lunch hour I can see why they don't like. It sets a precedent that everyone might ask to work 9-4 every day, which might not be good for the team.

It sets a precedent though. So whilst you see it as "only wanting to leave half an hour early twice a week", your manager probably sees this as a slippery slope to the whole team requesting WFH privileges.

I can see this from a business perspective as well as a personal perspective so kind of get why it's been refused.

Is part time as option? Can you present a good case as to what the WFH days will benefit the team / company?

What you have suggested is all about what works for you. What about what works for your employer?

If you’re going to negotiate (difficult now as they’ve already turned down your request!) then you need to identify some benefits for your employer too.

Also if you previously worked long hours to get your job done, how is it going to work if you were to start leaving early three days a week?

Are you in an organisation where you officially have an hour's lunch break but usually take 20mins to eat lunch and then continue to work or do you actually stop working for an hour? If it is the first, then suggesting you only take 30mins for lunch means that you will be working less. If you sometimes work until 8pm, who is going to absorb that work if you are always leaving at 4pm?
One obvious change would be that to don't leave early on the day your DH is doing childcare. If your team is one which has social events on a Friday, you could stay for those occasionally. On weeks when a colleague needs to leave a bit early on the Friday as they are away for the weekend, you could offer to step in and pick up some of their work. Or you could just use that evening to catch up on your own work (although I'd say Friday is not the ideal day for this).

I’m shocked how many people on this thread are convinced letting employees work flexibly is a Bad Thing. Giving them flexible hours is treating them as responsible professionals who will get the job done. You’d have to be a weak and insecure manager to resist this. All my team have flexible working - male, female, young, old. It’s a high pressured environment and we have to meet tight deadlines. They all work better because they can work flexibly and I recruit and retain talented staff. They might choose to work flexibly to avoid rush hour; or to suit their body clock, or to fit the pressures of work (a burst of long days then a day off). Either way, as long as they are getting the work done, and done well, then that’s what matters. In fact from clients perspective it is better because there is pretty always much someone in the office from 7am - 8pm; and others working from home in the evenings when kids are in bed.

Those of you who are totally resistant to flexible working for your employees need to realise this is the future. Whole organisations have their staff working flexibly now, and it works brilliantly. I’m shocked to see such old fashioned attitudes. It’s getting the work done well that matters, not whether it is done between the arbitrary hours of 9-5.

These are exactly the terms I agreed when I returned to work five years ago, I work from home two days a week and I changed my hours to come in an hour earlier on the other three days so I could leave an hour earlier. There was so much resistance to it (the company despite making a big deal about diversity and flexible working is only flexible in certain departments and mine wasn’t one of them) that I had to take it to an appeal panel. They were initially fine with me working from home one day and week and moving my hours but resisted the second day at home, which was important to me. The arguments against which they are putting forward are key to whether you will eventually be successful in my experience. In my case I was told that they could not approve a second day at home as I would not be as available for conference calls, meetings etc. This was plainly rubbish as if I can be available for calls and work on one day at home, two days does not impact my ability to work in this manner effectively. In your case they have said “it is good to be seen in the office” - this is not a valid business reason for declining your flexible working request. Do you have it in writing? If so then look into the appeal procedure quickly as I recall there were time limits within which you had to raise your appeal (the appeal is normally an internal panel made up of HR bods in larger companies - if this fails your only option really is tribunal).

One thing that also helped my proposal was I suggested a 3 month trial period - I was certain I could make it work and the biggest hurdle was overcoming my male managers’ assumptions that working from home was a way of slacking off - once they could see my productivity actually increased they were fine with it. I think a lot is about showing people what kind of home worker you can be - if you are dedicated and they can trust you they will often get over their initial issues (this is all assuming the industry and company has a set up which means it will not adversely impact their business by you working flexibly).

Like you I had also previously worked long hours. In busy periods I now leave early, respond to emails on the train home, pick up my child and have an hour or two to feed, bath, bed and then I log in at home again at 7.30 for a few hours in the evening to catch up. It can be tiring but I have found it would be for short periods when it is exceptionally busy or maybe once a week, so it is worth it to spend time with my child. People soon got used to me being unavailable between 4.30 and 7.30pm and company didn’t fall apart.

Good luck! It was a very stressful time in my life appealing the decision, you feel vulnerable when you are coming back from Mat leave, but it was the very best thing I could have done for our family.

I think you need to read through your company's policies thoroughly and keep negotiating with HR. If you have a union or a representative in your company who helps with these things (I know we used to have like a point person who supported staff on these sorts of issues and could attend meetings to help you negotiate), get them involved as well.

My understanding is it's very individual by company and companies can of course refuse. In my field (higher education), flexible working is pretty much the norm. Many people work part-time around the school runs, term time only, work several days a week from home, etc. I'm on mat leave now, but before this, I was working 2-3 days a week from home with flexible time on the other days (I used my commuting time as work, because I commuted by train and did genuinely work an hour or two on the train, and left a bit early these days). It wasn't an issue at all, but it depends on the employer and your role. I would keep pushing with HR, suggest a trial if they would consider it, get a union involved, etc.

Sounds reasonable to me - I'm a lawyer and people often think very old fashioned need to be seen and work all hours but plenty of people have flexible working arrangements: part time, compressed hours, wfh etc. You retain good staff who are motivated by the flexibility and it's generally only for a relatively short period considering how late retirement age is and how long we'll all be working 😑

Sorry no tips for negotiation as my work generally accommodates what you want but just providing moral support that YANBU!

In my case I was told that they could not approve a second day at home as I would not be as available for conference calls

This would really piss me off! Oh the irony of them arguing against the use of remote connectivity to... um... remote work . Well done you for calling them on it.

There is still such a bums on seats mentality in so many companies still.

I've remote worked for most of my career and it tends to be very culture based within a team, department and company wide. What one manager doesn't bat an eyelid over, another will clamp down hard and resist till they are forced to be dragged kicking and screaming into 21st century.

You need to go back and ask for a proper reason why your written request was turned down. You are entitled to that by law and “we like people to be seen at their desks” is not an appropriate reason.

Write again, ask for the reason pointing out you have a legal right to it, remind them you worked well from home before, suggest a trial period or even targets etc. Good luck OP.

I have successfully asked for both and it was granted!
I did first ask for flexible working hours (because of pick up times)
One year later i asked to work from home... And it was granted!
I think you might be asking "to much" in one go. You say your manager does not know you as you have just been on mat leave. It may be time to settle back into work, get to know your team, show them you are still committed to your job.
Once they know you again, they may well grant your requests.
And don't forget you can only make on application in an 12 (?) mounts period.

I find some jobs encourage WFH and others not. My current one you can't at my level, and in practice no one who can, does at the level above. The role and company I am moving to, WFH is a standard request for one day per week regardless of whether you have kids or not, but ideally you're in the other four because the role includes lots of meetings. But you don't need to staff the office as such, it's fine for no one to be there, whereas my current role needs someone there between 9.30-4.30. I wonder what the norm has been in your team, maybe this is why they're resistant?

Will they consider a trial period?

I WFH 3 days a week and changed my hours in the office including shorter lunch break. It's the best of both worlds to me.

However I can easily do above my 37 hour week as I usually log on again once dc are asleep but it's more than worth it for me.

If my best ever manager leaves and I no longer can have flexibility I'll leave too.

You also need to look at the bigger picture. If there are lots of people working from home already then that might be a reason to decline the request too - simply too many people away already.

You have the right to request flexible working but an employer also has the right to refuse it with business reasons. They don't HAVE to grant your requests, can suggest a compromise and can just flat out refuse. Agree with all other posters that you need to demonstrate how your proposed arrangements will work for them and not just for you.

We are in a similar position - I go back next week as well but I have only been off seven months.

I have managed to negotiate flexible working, working from home two days a week and in the office the other three days. For the first three months, I will also be leaving an hour early on the days I am in the office - I can then decide if I want to continue leaving earlier or just staying the hour until my normal leaving time.

I have been told that WFH twice a week will have a negative impact on my career, as I won't be as "visible" in the office. However, I already know that I am comfortable where I am so far in my career and am happy to stay there for a few years so it doesn't bother me.

If you google flexible working requests, you will find lots of templates to use. I did this and basically stated the working set up I wanted, how this would work for me, how it would work for the company, why I wanted it, what negative impact would there be for myself, what negative impact there would be for the company and how these could be resolved or worked around.

Like others have said, whilst they are legally obligated to consider your application for flexible working, they don't have to agree to it. I believe you can appeal the decision though?

We are in a similar position - I go back next week as well but I have only been off seven months.

I have managed to negotiate flexible working, working from home two days a week and in the office the other three days. For the first three months, I will also be leaving an hour early on the days I am in the office - I can then decide if I want to continue leaving earlier or just staying the hour until my normal leaving time.

I have been told that WFH twice a week will have a negative impact on my career, as I won't be as "visible" in the office. However, I already know that I am comfortable where I am so far in my career and am happy to stay there for a few years so it doesn't bother me.

If you google flexible working requests, you will find lots of templates to use. I did this and basically stated the working set up I wanted, how this would work for me, how it would work for the company, why I wanted it, what negative impact would there be for myself, what negative impact there would be for the company and how these could be resolved or worked around.

Like others have said, whilst they are legally obligated to consider your application for flexible working, they don't have to agree to it. I believe you can appeal the decision though?

If others in your same
Role in your department do WFH then they'd have to give a good reason why you can't otherwise it's unfair as they've already set a precedent - you should appeal if that's the case, you have added extra responsibility to the other people without children unless they care for others like elderly parents in which case it's the same as your needs.

If nothing else they should either stop thenothers working from home or set up a Rota if who works from home and when and ensure that the work is done

Make sure you carefully write your business case for flex working, how you'll ensure the company won't lose out, the current precedent for people in your role or similar Roles - so roles jt can't work as people are customer facing but if that's not the case for you then draft your appeal/case accordingly, don't winge just put the facts down to support both you and how you'll still complete your job fully

Go for it. We'll all benefit in a small way from you WFH more OP, since that will be better for the environment and will also keep you off our already overcrowded roads/railways.

Exactly Isa - companies wanting to get serious about going “green” need to facilitate regular wfh.

It’s also excellent for staff retention, recruitment of the best candidates and also improves the ability for staff to focus on difficult tasks (I find it almost impossible to do really complex legal research in an open plan office so save it for days at home).

Shocked by some of the prehistoric attitudes on this thread. I am far more productive wfh than in the office. I use office time for face to face stuff and get the real grunt work (drafting, reports, research etc) done on days at home/in the evenings at home.

Completely agree with nevertwerk

Companies need to facilitate it full stop really. There are obviously lots of jobs where it wouldn't be possible, but there's plenty of room to expand the practice in roles and sectors where it would. It may be time for governments to start offering formal carrots to employers taking the responsible approach. I'd give serious consideration to voting for a party with such policies.

It shouldn’t take govt policy though, companies that are dragging their heels need to wake up and see that it makes good business sense.
We used to outsource a lot of our organisations legal work, now we do it all in house because our flexible working policy means we attract high calibre lawyers. That’s a huge amount of business that local firms have lost, and it’s saved us a vast amount of money