Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Has anyone been to a psychedelic retreat/had psychedelic treatment for depression/anxiety?

43 replies

corbynswiltedturnips · 30/12/2017 17:35

I am thinking of going to a retreat to take ayahuasca, psilocybin, mescaline or iboga (not sure which yet) for psycho-spiritual therapy to treat my lifelong depression and anxiety which seems to be completely resistant to normal anti-depressant treatment. I have heard that psychedelics can reset the brain and give some clarity. I don't think this will be a panacea but I think it could help me and give me some breathing space from my incessant negative self-talk.

Has anyone done such therapy, what did you take and how effective was it?

OP posts:
Traffig · 30/12/2017 18:54

@ corbynswiltedturnips
Clearly you are thinking it through and know what is what. It wasn't clear that you were as informed in your original post. Apols.
I do know people in the Netherlands who have been through this. It has been helpful to a couple of them.
I am not totally anti meds but see them very much as a last resort, or for short term use. That's a perfect world though.
Hope it goes ok for you, check out the research properly is my advice but you seem to be onto that already. Smile

shatteredandfedup · 30/12/2017 18:55

bobstersmum what's so surprising?

bobstersmum · 30/12/2017 19:00

Sorry it just sounded really whacky, going off to a retreat to be guided on taking drugs to hopefully reset your brain and solve all problems?
I have honestly never heard of anything like it but if it is genuine I'm amazed!

Vitalogy · 30/12/2017 19:08

Terence McKenna.

IrkThePurist · 30/12/2017 19:11

Iboga/Ibogaine is very safe, and useful for addictions A study is collecting data on its effectiveness for other problems. Behaviours can be a form of addiction.

Yes I know the source is Psychedelic Times.
psychedelictimes.com/iboga/the-evidence-for-ibogaine-what-new-studies-tell-us-about-ibogaine-for-addiction-treatment/

Info on FDA approved research here;
psychedelictimes.com/psychedelic-research/are-we-entering-a-modern-renaissance-of-psychedelic-research/

Traffig · 30/12/2017 19:50

Shit a brick do people really do this? Irl?

Some do. Not many, it costs a lot. Not the person I am aware of who phoned the Crisis Team 153 times yesterday bobstersmum. She kept getting an answerphone and too unwell to leave a message.

Disgracefully, for most people with limited funds and poor MH there is very limited real life support available, NHS stretched to hell. I've seen very many more people who have been made permanently unwell from experimenting with, or being prescribed, miracle cure drugs -than those who have found the Holy Grail.

From the New Scientist article "Evidence" based on a 14 person trial...
posted up thread.

*"Psychedelic treatments
“The findings suggest a rapid antidepressant benefit for ayahuasca, at least for the short term,” says David Mischoulon of Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston. “But we need studies that follow patients for longer periods to see whether these effects are sustained

Mental ill health is a tough hand to be dealt, and the brain is a very delicate and fragile thing to experiment upon.
I would not do it, based on reading these articles. The research is limited, although in parts potentially persuasive. I think it is dangerous and irresponsible to present it as "fact" to others behind a screen when they do not know them nor their MH history.
Ultimately, it is the OP's own judgement call. I hope that they find it a positive experience.

movingpictures · 30/12/2017 22:39

in my humble opinion any psychoactive substance has the potential to alter brain chemistry including on a permanent basis.

for a balanced argument brain chemistry is what antidepressants, beta blockers, anxiety meds and antipsychotics or tranquilisers alter. if you research enough there is evidence to show that the long term effects of these compounds are not actually known for all populations and evidence that they do not fully break down in the liver and kidneys or in the water treatment plants so we are all already drinking residues of the molecules they contain.

native people have taken chemical compounds since before modern worlds existed

there are pros and cons to making any decision and you must feel a bit desperate to consider this, bear in mind that there may be other ways to find your own personal enlightenment that you don't know about yet

in younger years indeed tripped a few times with various compounds. none on an organised basis like a group with a controlled dose and setting but can share the consequences of experimenting:

a good trip can provide insights and connections into the infinite mind and the natural world, unlock good feelings and provide motivation for making changes in life. in my limited experience these are not always long lasting changes, it depends on what you experienced, of course if you manage to fully unravel reality the change can be long lasting or you can end up in a psych ward and long term care convinced you have seen the light.

with street drugs you don't know the dose or purity so you may get an a frightening insight into yourself. this can unlock trauma and buried memories and an awareness of thought patterns which have screwed your life up. understandably your personality may fracture under such introspection leading to psychological problems

some people do not get a bad event and just see plants with auras, patterns in the sky, well-being feelings and an alluring beauty everywhere. a kind of soft bemusement about being on the planet. The downside of this is that you may want to feel it again at a later date which can lead to an addiction if you lack self control

guided thinking on trips can provoke questioning around the cracks in what you call reality. this can be a good thing depending on where you are and who you are with. it can lead to a stronger connection to others and the environment, or the courage to finally go against the flow and be yourself. it can also encourage you to abandon what most people call everyday life in search of what you believe you know to be true.

unfortunately most of the members of normal right thinking society appear to have a low tolerance for people who do not follow what is termed, "the american dream - e.g. work real hard until your health fails get married and have 2.4 kids, buy what you see on tv and follow all our rules." it is not unknown for them to medicate, shun and exclude people who step out of line because it threatens their sense of self too much.

n.b. most people should not trip alone if they do not know what they are taking and the police advice is not to take these things at all

but then you only get to live your life once would you regret not doing it ?

at least you are considering ways out of your predicament which means you already have the beginnings of the motivation to change :)

justilou1 · 31/12/2017 06:43

I have lived in the Netherlands for 8.5 years and can assure you that there are many misconceptions about the legalities of drug use in that country. It may surprise you to discover that pot isn't actually legal - it's usage has been decriminalised (which means that they won't arrest you unless you produce it or sell it.). Hard drugs (including psychedelics) are very definitely illegal and they WILL charge you if you are caught. You can't buy cold& flu tablets at all and it is virtually impossible to get antibiotics if you have an ear infection or pneumonia, which leads me to believe that it is highly unlikely that any genuine medical professional is going to prescribe this course of treatment. In fact, it is a very socialist medical system there and getting any form of treatment takes MONTHS.

PersianCatLady · 31/12/2017 08:56

I agree with the idea of using psychedelics in cases of treatment resistant depression.

I really hate the idea of these retreats where people make a lot of money off the back of desperate people.

I know these drugs can't be acquired legally in the UK but they aren't hard to get hold of, I just hate the money making of these retreat organisers.

FindoGask · 31/12/2017 09:05

justilou I don't think the psychadelics would be prescribed by a doctor, they'd be purchased in a head shop. I imagine they'd be truffles, which are still legal to buy in Holland, via some weird loop hole in the law that recently banned the sale of mushrooms themselves (though they each contain the same psychoactive compound).

Persian I doubt everyone who goes on a retreat is 'desperate' - it wouldn't be my preference, but I imagine some people are curious about these experiences but are not confident to try on their own. If you look at the psychadelic society website it specifically states that the weekends are aimed at people in "good physical and mental health".

Neoflex · 31/12/2017 09:15

I would start off by experimenting with truffles, then mushrooms, and slowly working your way up with at least 3 months space in between each time before going on such a trip. You can access these easily in the Netherlands. Keep a journal and monitor your personality changes.
I know 3 people who went to a retreat in Brazil. One changed for the better and 2 changed (imo) for the worse. May be coincide but the 2 with what I consider negative effects were males. However all feel like they benefited from the experience. The female also has recognised negative effects in the 2 males.
The personality changes seem to be long term for all 3 and are quite dramatic. It does not seem reversible so it is a big risk to jump straight in. That's why I recommend the gradual approach rather than the sudden reset.

ohfortuna · 31/12/2017 09:20

Very interesting stuff
and David Nutt very interesting on all this

Farmerswife36 · 31/12/2017 09:31

I'd give anything to feel better . Iv tried all the ssris and a whole host of other Ad's and none have worked . Everyday I feel even more down and can't wait for it to be bedtime again ! I'm sick of feeling like shit and just want to feel normal and happy . At the minute I'm really flat and have no desire to even leave the house . I have a CPN and a lovely phychiatrist who I see regularly and I'm going to open up and tell them just how un well I am feeling at the minute xx

PersianCatLady · 31/12/2017 09:45

Findo
I suspect saying "good mental and physical health" covers the retreat organisers but I think a lot of people who are willing to pay this sort of money for something that costs just a few quid are actually depressed people looking for a cure.

I don't know though

MissKrampus · 18/01/2018 19:55

Was having a search and I see this thread isn't very old.

I have participated in 4 ayahuasca ceremonies, 3 of these took place in Peru. It is not something you get into lightly. I had never even smoked a joint before I did this. It was not done for recreational purposes though or to 'get high' but for spiritual growth purposes and also to help with the depression that I have suffered from for nearly 20 years.

It is intense but worth it. The throwing up, the diarrhoea, the inability to walk without assistance. The visuals are both beautiful and terrifying. You have to just let it happen, don't hold back. The 4th ceremony nobody was sick at all but I was given the most beautiful healing and lessons that night. I think that time was the most beneficial for me. That time was not in Peru but there's something amazing about being there in dark in that space with others going through he same thing but different; and hearing the jungle round about you. It was very humbling.

You need to be careful of what you put into your body, no antidepressants for a number of weeks, no alcohol or chocolate a day or so beforehand, bland foods on the day. There's lots of info online.
And chose your shaman carefully. My alternative therapist friend who took a small group of us to Peru spent time over there beforehand meeting shamans before she found one she trusted. There are lots of dodgy shamans around who are just out to make a fast buck. And it is expensive if you go to a retreat. I wish so much it was more readily available, my fiance suffers terribly from depression and I would like for him to have the opportunity to take the plant if he wanted.

It hasn't 'cured' my depression. Not in a sense that I'm over it and will never get depressed again. Things happen. But I truly believe it has made me able to deal with it better. It doesn't affect me so badly or for as long now. I'm more of an observer of life now. Would I take it again? Absolutely.

IamalsoSpartacus · 18/01/2018 20:10

Alice Walker has written about such an experience in her book, Now is the Time to Open Your Heart. I don't know if it draws on her own memories but it might be interesting background for you while you mull the decision over:-

alicewalkersgarden.com/books/now-is-the-time-to-open-your-heart-a-novel/

MissKrampus · 20/01/2018 11:31

Interesting link. There's quite a few interesting books on the subject out there, as well as people discussing experiences on forums, etc.

To the OP, they say that you don't choose Ayahuasca, she chooses you :)

strawberriesaregood · 20/01/2018 11:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread