Sibling rivalry

[VivaMia]

My nephew and niece are constantly fighting. She is 4 and and he is 8.

He annoys her all the time and she responds by lashing out and screaming and crying. Parents (dh's sister and her husband) are generally loving and attentive parents but they do fuck all about the fighting.

My niece told me over Christmas that she wants to chop off her brother's willy and burn it.

My sense is that my niece feels incredibly frustrated and helpless as her parents just stand by when her older brother annoys her. They never intervene claiming that it's better for siblings to work their issues out themselves.

AIBU to think it is not normal sibling rivalry if one sibling wants to essentially torture the other sibling and destroy their sex organs? The girl is 4 ffs.

Were you an only child? Sounds pretty standard, parents should try to step in more though.

I read an article lately about a young woman raising the issue of bullying that she had recieved from her older brother growing up. Parents dismissed her saying that it wasn't 'bullying' but simple sibling rivalry. She that she never felt relaxed at home, and felt really alone because no one would stick up for her...... I think the point is bullying does go on at home, and every child has the right to feel relaxed and happy at home. Don't get me wrong, siblings do fight and argue, but if you're neice is this frustrated her parents should curb the behaviour.

I hate this, there was a lot of bullying went on in my family which was dismissed as “sibling rivalry”. If an 8 year old was tormenting a 4 year old at school all hell would break loose, why is it acceptable just because they are related?

@VivaMia I have 2 DDs, aged 2 years apart. They fight like cat and dog, take each others things, push one another constantly. So I fully accept "siblings fight". However my 2 both give as good as they get and are punished for rowing (removal of iPads etc) and certainly wouldn't do it in other peoples houses or when we had guests round. And, at 9 and 7, they wouldn't even think of mentioning burning genitals. That's a bit strange to even think of that one, I would definitely tell their DPs. Hopefully it will embarrass them into stopping this happening. Also there must be a pretty deep hatred to actually suggest mutilating their sibling which would concern me. What you described, to me, is not everyday sibling fighting and is bullying.

I have 2 sisters DesignedForLife and I know from personal experience about feeling actual hate toward your siblings at times, often related to feelings of helplessness. We had some spectacular fights (some physical) as children but I feel this is different as the older child is constantly pestering the younger without being pulled up on it. Our mother was pretty strict but fair and would not have just stood watching us kill each other.

I felt uncomfortable that a 4 year old would hate her brother so much that she imagines mutilating his genitals in such a specific and detailed way. I am aware that there is no danger of this actually happening but I feel a bit

I think a lot of people do agree that it is good to let them work things out for themselves ... to an extent. I would tend to agree it is good if you can but to me that doesn't mean always just ignoring it but helping them learn how to work things out while continuing to set the boundaries and step in where things get out of hand.

It’s about balance and with a 4 year age gap the DPs need to be much more pro-active IMO as the older boy will always ‘win’if he wants to. I have a 2 year gap and it’s often a ‘six of one, half a dozen’ situation. Even so, I enforce certain rules

• they both have the right to tell the other one to leave their bedroom and I enforce that to stop the ‘I’m not following them. I’m just standing here’ wide eyed bollox

• physical violence is not acceptable

• the ‘copying game’ is banned

What's the copying game Johnnycomelately1?

The behaviour sounds normal to me but the parents should be doing something

My eldest 3 are nearly 10, 8 and 4. They can all clash and he horrible to each other. They can also all be lovely to each other.

Had issues just yesterday with 8 year old being quietly nasty to 4 year old. Then we she retaliated hes straight to tell me. Sneaky so and so!

I am surprised that people think a 4 year old talking openly about maiming her brother's willy is 'normal' but am willing to accept IABU. Why focus on her brother's genitals and why the idea to destroy it? Isn't 4 a bit young for that sort of thinking?

I think everyone has the right to feel safe in their own home. They really should be policing this behaviour a bit more. No one would think it acceptable for the husband to constantly pick at/wind up/physically abuse the wife in this situation, so why let the older sibling this to the younger?

I think it speaks of her desperation actually VivaMia. She literally has no where to go if her brother bullies her, no one to protect her and no one who listens. No wonder she is getting more extreme in her words.

I have 3 DC and they do "fratch" as we call it - non-descript squabbling with no real winner, just a lot of time wasted.

We step in as soon as it gets physical, or if a person's vulnerability is being taken advantage of (this is usually age based but could be toys which are private being messed with because one is at school, or due to one being physically slower for example). By step in, a fairly mild "Children!" is usually enough but we do sometimes have to use time out or distraction techniques to remove one person from the situation.

Definitely think the level of anger a four year old is feeling in this situation is unusual, perhaps she does feel bullied. The parents need to be much more proactive by the sound of it. Are the DC ever loving / kind to one another in a non gaslighty way?

I have never understood why it is good for siblings to sort it out themselves. Especially with such a large age difference, your DN is never going to be able to meet him at his level.

Tbh my dd will say "ill kick you in the nuts" to her older brothers. Shes picked this language up from them. Shes four.

This is bullying and it shouldn’t be accepted.

My brother and I are NC and have been for some time now. When we were growing up he would say horrible things to me and beat me up all the time. It escalated as we got older and he was always jealous of everything I achieved and tried to sabotage me. I don’t feel my parents defended me at all. I would say that I wished he was dead and meant it as I felt tormented. It got to the point where I couldn’t relax in the home and didn’t feel safe at times. His apparent hatred and jealousy of me extended into adulthood.

It’s understandable that from time to time children will bicker but full on constant bickering and fighting is not on and it’s unfair of parents to ignore it and call it sibling rivalry. If parents don’t intervene effectively there is a chance that the siblings relationship will be permanently damaged.

Sometimes, as was the case with my brother and I, it’s actual jealousy and genuine dislike. Just because you’re blood doesn’t make you friends although maybe we would still be speaking if our parents had been more effective.

My childhood would’ve been far happier if I’d been an only child. My mum thought having two kids 18 months apart would create a friendship but instead all she got was one bully and one unhappy child.

If you are worried about sexual inappropriateness OP you should say as much. A four year old threatening to cut off and burn her brother’s willy seems within the normal range of statements I have encountered working with that age group. However if there is something more making you worried about that aspect you should definitely address it with the parents.

BTW I think a four year age gap when the youngest is only four is too big to let them just ‘sort it out between them’.

"Are the DC ever loving / kind to one another in a non gaslighty way?"
Yes I believe they can be genuinely loving to each other at times and individually they are lovely dc.

However my nephew constantly seeks out my niece and disrupta her whatever activity she is doing, he chases her around the house taking the toys she is currently laying with and saying things to wind her up.

She can rarely play in peace. Maybe he is bored and entertains himself by winding her up?

A pp mentioned not being allowed into each other's rooms when they are fighting but the children share a bed room, which is an added complication due to different bed times. Sil says niece goes to sleep at around 9 most days as her older brother keeps her awake with is reading light, chatting or being generally silly.

I somehow get the sense that my SiL imagines her children are really close sharing everything and playing together all the time but in reality this 'closeness' comes at the price of the little girls boundaries.

CircleofWillis no I am not at all concerned about that but I find the willy maiming idea extreme and unusually aggressive. I'm still unsure whether it is normal to want to destroy your older brother's 'manhood' so to speak. Hearing a younger sibling say "I'll kick you in the nuts" wouldn't worry me at all as that's just repeating what she has heard from older siblings. I am taken aback at the inherent aggressiveness of cutting her brother's penis off and burning it and wondered if this falls within the range of 'normal' sibling rivalry at such a young age. Still not sure. I feel it's an expression of her deep frustration and helplessness but I may not be interpreting it correctly, projecting etc.

Or something she has heard someone else say

As someone who grew up in the same situation as your neice, please, please, speak to one of the parents. My situation was also dismissed as 'rivalry' and 'fighting'. It wasn't. I was physically and emotionally abused and it only got worse as we got older, I think because he wasn't challenged, disciplined or held accountable. I was a desperately sad little girl who just wanted to be left alone, but also protected and loved. I lived in fear and could never relax. The emotional deficit and hypervigilance still deeply affects me today (I'm 34 with two children of my own), despite a lot of therapy. This is serious, and something that people generally don't understand unless they've lived it. When one child is always the aggressor and the other the victim, it is not 'fighting', it's bullying and abusive. That little girl has the right to protection, comfort, and peace.

The comment she made doesn't bother me the fact she is frequently bullied by her brother does!

i never threatened my brothers genitalia, i broke his toys instead...