To think this was a gross misuse of the emergency services

[retainertrainer]

DSis phoned me this morning. I missed the call as I was in work. I couldn’t talk but was able to send her a text asking if she was ok (she knew I was working so I thought something must be wrong for her to ring). She messed back saying she’d fallen down the stairs and couldn’t get up. I obviously called her straight back. She was crying but calmed down enough to explain that she’d actually missed the bottom step and landed at an awkward angle,her ankle was in a lot of pain. In the time it’d taken me to ring her back she’d also called 999 for an ambulance,her DP and our Dad (who lives a street away). By the end of our phone call her partner had arrived home and my Dad followed shortly.

The 3 of them then sat and waited 30 minutes for an ambulance. They all drive, 3 cars were at the house. No attempt made to get sis on her feet and into the car. They could have been to a&e themselves in 15! I understand she panicked when it first happened and for all she knew it could have been broken but for none of them to even attempt to get her on her feet and drive her themselves astounds me! Turns out it’s a bad sprain. I’m so cross with them all!

Because you fell down the stairs at 9 months pregnant.

The ankle would have been the lowest indicator for an ambulance.

Ollivander84 You've raised some interesting points - mobiles - yes, if you've no landline and are miles from a call box, but you do have transport, then you'll use the transport.

You give examples of completely unjustifiable calls, and suggest they're increasing. But I get the impression that if we were to manage to eradicate the complete time wasting calls, we still wouldn't have the ambulances for things like broken bones. And I suppose it is reasonable to ask people to be more self reliant here, because the number of people without any transport is so much smaller. Although I'm wondering at what stage we as a country decided to contract the scope of what we used the ambulance survey for. Or is it something we've sleep-walked into?

We only have what the OP has biasedly posted
True but we also know the sister started with having fallen down the stairs and was in total agony to missed the bottom step and hurt her ankle.

If OP had said 'my sister called an ambulance because she'd missed the bottom step and fell. Her ankle was sore and because it's a lower limb injury it might have benefited from medical attention rather than hobbling in' then whilst people may have different views, we can say that the sister has made a reasonable assessment of the situation.

As soon as people start being drama llamas and hypochondriacs, then it starts you wondering whether they are the type of people who call an ambulance for a owchie and go to the dr every time they have a cold, which probably explains why so many people have said the sister has probably wasted resources (i've missed a step a number of times and it's been a bit sore for half an hour or so but it's a perfectly normal pain response to a very minor injury).

YANBU, she should have gone by Car. I broke my leg a while ago. I knew it was broken straight away as I felt nauseous when I tried to move it. I hopped back to my flat, got up the stairs on my bum and checked if either flatmate could take me to hospital. They had both had a drink, so I called a taxi, went back down 2 flights of stairs on my bum, got taxi to A&E. It was a bad spiral fracture that needed pinning. It hurt, yes, but perfectly possible to get to hospital under my own steam without calling an ambulance.

This image explains. Being in lots of pain doesn't mean life threatening. Falling downstairs when 9 months pregnant could be life threatening to the baby.

I fell over last year, breaking my ankle and tearing tendons. I was in the middle of no where walking. I crawled to the side of the road and called DH To come and get me, why on earth would anyone call an ambulance for this. It's a gross misuse of NHS resources.

meredin - it's a tricky one. I'm not good on figures but suspect population increase maybe
People also want an ambulance now which means more calls because they want a time of arrival
Maybe the question is was there ever enough ambulances? But then increasing ambulances and paramedics means increasing hospital beds, triage etc and most people are aware of the pressure on hospitals already
I think there's a lack of knowledge, and people would have previously treated something at home for a week, spoke to the chemist then rung the GP. But now, some people want an ambulance at 1am to fix it immediately - there's a pressure not to be off work sick or they can't afford childcare while they're ill. It's long and complex

The best thing I could see would be basic first aid training compulsory in primary schools to capture every single child. That child then goes home and tells their parent about it. Children are often calmer in emergencies. So they learn to treat minor scalds, cuts, when to ring 999 and it passes down the generations.
Rather than someone who has scalded their child and puts butter on rather than water. Defibs are widely available in public places but people won't always use them because "they're not trained/might get sued/don't know what to do". But they're easy, they talk to you and they save lives

You tend to find people way out in the country ring less often as they can be 1hrs drive from a hospital so they tend to self treat. Elderly people often ring less as they don't want to bother anyone

I think on reflection, my comment earlier was a tad harsh. But it sounds from OP like it wasn't a terribly serious injury and OP's DS had a support network very quickly available. (By not serious I mean, didn't hurtle down three flights, wasn't unconscious and didn't have bone sticking out etc etc)....

That said, no one should ever feel deterred from calling for help when needing it. However, DH (paramedic), spends his days dashing out to people who are at best 'slightly unwell'. He also picks a lot of old ladies up off the floor, and he also meets a lot of very sad and lonely people, who while not suffering from a life threatening emergency, in that moment, just really need someone just to be there.

He hugs people, he cleans shit off them and himself, he reassures, and very occasionally he comes home really excited that he went out to someone at deaths door - not because they were at deaths door, but because that day, he genuinely saved a life. He is busy every minute of his 12 hour shifts, but it is rare that he actually does save a life.

I do think we should always consider whether we really need that ambulance - are we calling for convenience, or because we are genuinely in trouble? I think plenty of the people who call could make that choice rationally and sensibly. (Some people just call for the drama too - he sees that a lot).

The system isn't perfect, but on the one hand our colleagues in the NHS are battered and complained about, and moaned for not attending quick enough, and the other, a lot of us do take a bit of a liberty with what we expect to be provided.

A lot said on this trail - but hats off to our hard working NHS staff who are always on the brunt of it all - whether from patients or targets or tabloid outrage.....

Just thinking of my grandmother who walked around on a broken leg for 3 weeks because she "didn't want to be a bother". She needed a plate and pins.

Check on elderly relatives and neighbours this bank holiday if you want to help the NHS. Call for help and if you're not sure call 111 for advice and they can direct you to the right level of care.

Ollivander84 Hmm... I'm thinking back to 70s... what's changed? population increase as you say, private car availability, GPs no longer doing home visits or out-of-hours, easier to contact emergency services, more things now treatable so maybe higher expectations? And a consequent belief that we need medical intervention rather than home treatment? I can remember being taught in 70s basically immobilise broken limb then call ambulance. Obviously that info is well out of date!

I'm an hour's drive to nearest hospital and I'm urban!

Also drinking. People used to come home with a black eye and some injured pride. Now it's a knife wound which needs ambulance/hospital etc. Or being knocked unconscious etc
More cars, more road accidents personal injury claims, more pedestrians hit by cars
It's a completely different culture now

Like other not-Londoners, I'm impressed she got an ambulance at all, let alone that fast. Round here she would be told to get herself to a and e.

Be careful until Tuesday because the drunks will be clogging the service again. Pity people don't bend their energies to getting less pissed and stopping their mates from doing so.

TwistableTwister - creating the website and maintaining/managing it costs £XXXXX per year.

Divide that by the number of visits to the site and you get the cost per visit.

@ollivander84 that hasn't changed. Knife crime and punch ups have long been an ingrained part of the British drinking culture

BumPowder - but in volume it has. A decade ago taking a call for a stabbing would have people going "stabbing? Where? Wow" type thing
Now it could be 10/20/30 a night and nobody bats an eyelid

Half my family work(ed) in the NHS in one form or another. 2 'ambulance men' (back before paramedics) a paramedic, 2 a&e nurses and other specialities.
You don't call an ambulance or go to a&e in this family unless you're dead
But more seriously, having grown up with adults like that around me, I'm far more likely to assess, wait for the initial shock to wear off if appropriate, and then assess again.
I agree with the sentiments that there's no common sense about things and people don't trust their own judgment because of litigation against just about anyone these days. If its me or a member of my family I follow the above.

Enidthecat

Yes, some things can be serious and need looking at. Other things are definitely not, and are very obviously not in need of urgent attention. In my experience, it is becoming more common for patients to be unable to distinguish between what needs is urgent and what is not/ what needs to be seen and what can be managed with simple measures or seen in a routine appointment. It's certainly not true of every (or even most)- but there is a significant minority.

I am glad about the sepsis campaign for example- although has not come without it's issues. Now I do see significantly more patients who are convinced they (and colleagues have said similar re parents and their children) have sepsis, when they definitely don't. Because the signs and symptoms are not always straight forward, so it's understandable- but (and I can only speak for the local experience) this has led to demand for same day GP appointments/urgent hospital assessment which was not required. There's a balance, but overall the campaign was positive. Ultimately, I recognise that if people are worried, they'll want to be seen, but there are things that are obviously not urgent if you use even a modicum of common sense.

For example of the "simple things' that I think people should be able to manage, but have seen or heard from colleagues:

• "I've had a sore throat since I woke this morning" (appt late morning- booked as an emergency). No other concerning symptoms. Hadn't taken paracetamol or ibuprofen as wanted "dr to see it before I took anything".
• child has had a cough for a few days- no other worrying symptoms such as high fever which wasn't settling but was irritable- but demanding be seen in out of hours late at night on a Sunday night when GP would be open in the morning.
• ambulance called for a red eye which was watering/stinging. Called as "suddenly reduced sight in one eye and feels unwell".
• normally healthy adults/teens who have vomiting +/- diarrhoea for less than 24 hours who apparently need home visits (including out of hours GP).

There are so many examples. So yes, there really are cases where people really should be able to work out they don't need an urgent appointment and there are things they could do for themselves.

I think we should all be more angry with our government and the many reasons why the NHS it on its knees, instead of turning on each other for how we use those services. Excluding the utter idiots who would call 999 for a splinter or ask for a lift after a night out etc.

We are all responsible for helping to lighten the load but if you aren't medically trained or have basic medical knowledge you don't always know when it is appropriate to call 999 so rely on the call handlers to help you make that decision.

I think many people could do with getting some more first aid knowledge and education on when an ambulance is needed.

Whilst we turn on each other for how these services are used it takes the heat off the people who actually have the power to make a difference to the NHS.

U2 - definitely. Too many people get angry at the NHS instead

jacks

You can win by what you've said. You want yo educate people so they know what to do / who to call / when they need to been seen and when they don't, but don't make people aware of life threatening conditions because people will think they've got it?

What is the solution?

YANBU simply for the fact that there were adults there with her,who could drive,with cars at their disposal. But this certainly isn't the worst example of ambulance misuse that I've heard of. Quite a few years ago,my NDN cut his finger quite badly while slicing onions. Despite the fact that his wife was there,who could drive,he called an ambulance. I must admit I was .

The only time I have been in an ambulance I called for myself was when I slipped 6 inches off a tree stump in woodland and broke my ankle in three places. I heard the bone snap and there was no way the people with me could carry me to a road.

This was in the days before everyone had a mobile so someone had to get to a house to ask to phone 999. Sometimes you cannot move. By the way the break didn't hurt but I think I went into shock.

Evil i had to call an ambulance foe the same scenario, baby imminent. I did call the MW first & was told 999 now! But i felt immensely guilty knowing that two MW were on their way.

Have to say tho, when they turned up (before the MW) and produced gas & air and a very reassuring demeanour i was bloody glad i had called them.

I think for me i struggle to understand the mindset of some. I was a carer, & have had to wait 3+ hours a time for ambulances for situations that absolutely warranted them. One gentleman fell down the stairs & smacked his head, small cut but was more worried about head/neck injuries. 3 hour wait. Now i don't begrudge that three hour wait for someone who has had a heart attack/collapsed/fallen down the stairs etc etc. But I do begrudge the wait for someone who can hobble to the car. It's the same with A&E versus the walk in centre; people completely misuse A&E then wonder a) why the wait is so long and b) people get arsed off

I broke my ankle at school in a similar fall when I was at school. The school nurse told me to stay where I was and phoned an ambulance. I was put on a stretcher and carried through the school hallway to the waiting ambulance. The paramedics didn't seem to think it was a waste of time (this was obviously a couple of decades years ago)

As for hopping- in the first few days I was in so much pain I started to black out when using crutches. Your sister would have known that she wasn't in that much pain, but I don't blame the other adults for believing that she was in too much pain to move.

An article on the BBC website today said that 15% of A&E visits, and 70% of fri/sat A&E visits, are alcohol-related. I'd rather people stopped drinking so much they need medical attention, so that there would be ambulances for things like bad breaks as well as 'will die if no ambulance in 10 minutes' cases.