to worry about how siblings are parented?

[welliving]

First off, I completely understand, not my children, not my rules! Equally I'm not a parent myself, and I appreciate that! I know how easy it is to discuss when I don't know the reality, but this seems beyond the norm, hence my post.

Relevant background - I'm 20, and went to uni a year and half ago. I live there full time now, coming home for short visits over uni breaks. I sadly lost a set of twins last January, who were unplanned, but I knew about prior to the loss. It has devestated me, and I'm sure this has affected my judgement - hence the AIBU post!

I have three younger siblings - 8 year old twin girls and a 6 year old little brother. They are lovely, sweet, articulate polite etc, as much as children that age can be! What concerns me when I come home is what appears to be a complete lack of parenting - mum and dad go to bed at 10, and give the children no direction whatsoever. They aren't told to go to bed, asked to brush their teeth, tucked in etc etc. At half past midnight tonight, all three of them were still awake, playing on their iPads and watching TV. I said it was long past their bedtimes and they said they weren't tired yet. Of course that's a typical response from children at this age, but I think it's true in the sense that they have gotten into a pattern of very late nights. This isn't just a one off behaviour, this may be a bit later but when I lived with my parents and when I've been for visits in the past they have all been up past 10 pretty much for each visit. It's not unusual to find them passed out on the sofas in the living room with the TV still going and lights on the next morning which I find so sad.

Something I remember from my childhood and I see being replicated with them is a serious lack of healthy habit formation - they are never encouraged to drink water throughout the day, wipe after going to the toilet, wear seat belts in the car, or brush their teeth. Growing up I knew about these things, but thought like me that most children didn't actually do any of them. I'm so concerned but all of this. The 8 year olds still wet the bed, not due to a known medical condition but because nobody ensures they go to the toilet before bed or makes sure they don't drink too much.

I'm struggling so much because it's not my place to intervene, and I'm not around enough to implement anything meaningful, but I see how damaging it is. What do I do? Am I being unreasonable? Is this normal?

Call social services, your siblings need help and your parents need support. Well done for taking this on and being the person who can see this needs resolving x

Sunny based on what welliving says SS wouldn't act and it would cause irreparable damage to the relationship she has with her family.
Can you talk to your parents? What happens when you talk about your childhood or 'parenting' stuff?
(I might not respond now as I need my sleep 😉)

Of course ss would react it's neglect!!

It will be difficult but you should try and have a conversation with your parents when the kids aren't there. Let them know you're concerned with what you see when you come home, and ask them what they think of the late nights, bed wetting etc.

If they think it's normal/reasonable, it will be a case of saying you don't agree and sharing any information you can about how these things should be done (e.g. prepare NHS docs perhaps about the hours of sleep kids that age should be getting, habits etc). You'll have to convince them that they should be taking better care of your siblings. This might be tricky but if you start from a position of protection for your siblings then that might help.

If they are remorseful and know it's wrong but don't feel able to do anything about it, I think that's your cue to show support and nudge them in the direction of better parenting styles. Some people might be overwhelmed with it all and just need someone to highlight that there are easy improvements to make.

Good luck, it is worth doing and your sibling are definitely worth the hard work to bring things into order in their lives.

It's hard because I don't think it's intentional to be honest - they're the youngest three of six children, and my parents are running businesses. Tonight I casually mentioned to my mum that all three were up at 12:30 at night, and she said were they? Did you tell them to go to bed? I think the sleep pattern issue isn't helped by the fact that my parents get up in the middle of the night to work - they don't have to, just naturally wake up and get things done (hence me posting so late!) they aren't loud or anything, but I feel like it sets an example, and the fact that nobody is actually "putting them to bed" doesn't help. They do have a full time nanny, who does 9-7 everyday. She is a recent addition and I'm sure will improve things, but I struggle to see how things will be better if they are exhausted and encouraged to get in to such bad habits.

I think especially because they are younger and my parents have already raised three they are very confident aka "well you survived" and they think I'm "soft" with my suggestions. My mum will often say to a recommendation (aka maybe take them up to bed and make sure they brush their teeth) "well you try doing it". I limit my time at home because I find it stressful already, and lie about how long my university breaks are, but still find it stressful to be home because I can't try and teach three children things in a week or so.

To be honest, I find the children really trigger me in terms of the loss of my twins, so I try and avoid heavy childcare with them for that reason. My parents are aware of the loss but don't seem to understand. My mum is currently not using birth control because it makes her gain weight. I asked her what would happen if she got pregnant and she said she would have a termination. I genuinely don't think she understands how hurtful it is to here that given what I've been through. Besides the point, but a tough one for me.

How do they get up for school if they're so tired? Also wondering why the nanny is employed such long, full time hours 9-7 every day for older children who are at school during the day? Just trying to understand how this works.

“My mum will often say to a recommendation (aka maybe take them up to bed and make sure they brush their teeth) "well you try doing it”

“No mum, I am not their parent, and I don’t love here. You and dad have to do it.”

Isn't the nanny instilling good habits into them? If she works til 7 then she could be leaving after telling them to wash, brush teeth and go to bed at whatever hour is deemed appropriate.

The bedwetting 8 year olds are more of a concern.

Surely your parents would realise something is amiss when they have great trouble getting the kids up for school and would want to fix the issue to avoid making a rod for their backs in the morning?

I am guessing that the kids, at 6yo and 8yo are already at school by the time the full time nanny starts at 9am so she doesn’t start taking care of them until school finishes and she leaves at 7pm?

It does seem bizarre your parents just leaving them essentially without any active supervision from the time the nanny leaves, very very sad. It does seem like extremely bad parenting as opposed to abuse though but I may well be wrong. Still a heartbreaking situation.

I do think you are projecting your own issues onto the situation though. I also don’t think you can really complain about your mums choices re contraception or what she would do if she became pregnant. You asked, she answered, it doesn’t make her insensitive or a bad person. She’s had 6 kids and is obviously really struggling through at this point. If you have an issue in this regard and am having issues projecting your own situation into others counselling would be beneficial, can only be a positive for you, no downsides!

What an odd set up.

YANBU at all. That is very poor parenting. Wtf is wrong with your parents? I think that you need to sit down and talk to them about it. Do you have any other family members that you could ask to keep an eye on the family while you are away?

How do they cope in school if they're going to bed so late?

Tbh the whole setup is very confusing.

This sounds very heartbreaking OP and I can totally understand this is triggering for yon on multiple levels.

On a practical basis, could you try having a quiet word with the nanny? She may be able to help instil some habits, which could set the ball rolling and it might be easier for your parents to carry the habit on? Sometimes I feel children will accept changes from childcare providers easier than their own parents.

I doubt social services would get involved, but is there something like Sure Start or Home Start in your area which might be able to provide advice and support?

I am interested to know what your mum thinks of the bed wetting, and how they are getting to school in the am? How are their grades OP?

Well, this is grim. I'm surprised you turned out as well as you come across to be honest, OP, but their 'parenting' has obviously gone downhill even more. They sound like kids themselves. As for using termination as a form of contraception, well... She is undeserving of her fertility. I don't care how callous that sounds. She doesn't.

What to do though? Does it warrant social services? I'm not sure about that. It's not abuse as such. Rather lax parenting. What about meal times, homework, clean clothes and the like. You know, the basics. Are they being done? I wonder will the nanny have any impact on showing them what they need to be doing?

Do they have good beds with clean sheets, clean clothes and a good school attendance?
If so, SS will not be interested.

What does the nanny do all day assuming the children are at school for the best part of the day?