To want ds to learn a second language

[strugglingthroughlife]

We homeschool ds (6) well I say "we" What I mean is "I". Well, recently I've been thinking that it will be really beneficial for ds to learn a second language, after some searching around and some research I've been thinking Chinese mandarin may be one he could learn. I've looked further and found "lingobus" . Native Chinese speakers teaching students Chinese. Perfect.

I am also aware of the job prospects when he is grown for knowing another language, also for the advantageous effects on the brain.

But, dp has said it's a "waste of money" no other reason than "he should learn more English vocabulary" (we do a few new words a week) and that's it. We can afford for ds to study. I simply feel that it's because it's my suggestion and not dp.

So aibu to want ds to study a second language? It's only a 25 minute class a week or so, so not massive amounts!

I just don't know

Chinese is going to be useless if he can't practice it. Especially with 25m a week teaching. Native speakers is often used as a buzzword in language teaching but quite often these native speakers may not actually be trained teachers!

Find something where there is a community local to you or where you can travel regularly. Do a duolingo course yourself. One of the European languages, French, German or Spanish is likely to be the best thing.

90% of learning a language is using it. So find something you can realistically use.

OP - you will need a proper teacher. Don't assume that any old native speaker will be able to teach their own language. Conversation practice, yes, but grammar, etc? Could you as a native english speaker explain to a learner, eg, when to use the Present perfect and when to use the Present perfect continuous??

Definitely beneficial to learning another language(s), but as others have said, it will be pretty much a waste of money if it's only one lesson a week. Even if you don't speak any additional languages, you can help to reinforce what is taught - labelling items around the house in the target language, watching films, listening to music, playing games etc. And you can learn alongside him and eventually progress to reading books and so on.

You could ask your friend but definitely pay them! Us teachers sometimes don't mind giving lessons to friends' children but we do expect to be paid if it's a regular thing.

it will be pretty much a waste of money if it's only one lesson a week

This is why we did an exchange, in the end. We spent as much on the exchange as we would have on a tutor for the same period of time (6 months) and dd came home fluent with a perfect accent. Her GCSE teachers are always very glowing in her reports and the experience of living in the culture as well as learning the language was priceless. It's not for everyone, of course, but it's worth considering imo. (fwiw, my younger dc are not interested in an exchange at all, so it really is an individual choice that should be championed by the child as much as the parent)

kit Which is why Spanish is the easiest for English speakers - their present continuous has the same formula as ours as have other tenses. I don't think that's the grammatical level of most 6 year olds, anyway, since most are picking it up from games, conversation etc. I do agree grammar is enormously helpful esp for foreign languages but it's a question of when to teach it and how to teach it so it's not offputting.

Coming at this from the angle of someone who has a couple of European languages (and a nodding acquaintance with a third) and has tried to learn Chinese (and knows how hard it is), I'd say nothing beats physically having a teacher with you. I had a quick look at the lingobus course - as far as I can see, it's one-to-one tutorials via skype or similar, which would go part way there, though not sure how well it would work on 25 minutes a week without reinforcement.

Pros of Chinese with a 6 year old - you're still in the window of opportunity in terms of neurological development for learning languages properly - so your DS will pick up on the tonal elements of the language (much better than an adult would). Writing the characters can be turned into a fun, artistic game (though as others have said, your child really doesn't have a chance of becoming a fluent reader of Chinese on 25 minutes a week - oral plus pinyin is as far as it will go). The skype format will provide the necessary feedback of "you've not quite got that right, here's how it should sound, have another go" which you cannot get from other self teach methods. Chinese grammar isn't actually that strange or alien (and by a quirk of luck, the word order in sentences is remarkably similar to English).

Disadvantages: you don't speak it so won't be able to do follow up sessions in between the 25 minute lessons, and once a week won't cut it. Nothing familiar to "hang" things on - with another European language, there are familiar words that share common roots - think "haus" and "maus" in German for example. You can't plan on going to China for a half-term mini-break to get your DS speaking the language in the country.

TBH, I think a better bet would be looking for someone who inspires you as a teacher, located in your town, and pay for two or even three sessions a week in whatever language they're good at. This needn't be a European language - I live in quite a small town in a far-flung bit of the UK, and we have quite a vibrant Korean community here, just as an example. If you're in a university town, even better - there may be students wanting to learn extra money (but do remember, being a native speaker and being able to teach are two entirely different things). I suppose one half-way house might be the lingobus course, plus a couple of sessions a week with a native Chinese speaking student who fancies earning a bit of money.

DC who is 6yo has just started learning Chinese outside of school this year. She has a 2 hour lesson every Saturday. And we get a little bit of home work for the week. Something like practice 'How old are you?', 'I'm six', and write I'm 6 each week. 25min a week is definitely too little each week.

From other children in the Chinese school, they can sort of read by the 3rd year. This is from a mum who told me her child can pick out words from a written paragraph, and guess meanings.

To those who says tonal language is a problem. It isn't because DC is speaking basically toneless but you can make out what she says because of context. Learning a language isn't just about being fluent one day. It has the benefit also of stretching the brain, and understanding a different culture.

DH and I have both learned French at school and not speak much of it beyond My name is x, I live in England, and I can't speak French. I can't believe DC can do worse than that

I think I am with your dh.

I was made to study the language that one of my parents speaks. (Not that said parent stuck around) European language.

I know about 3 words of it. Considering it was rammed down my throat. Probably 10 hours per week every week for 11 years.
I was told it would be useful when I got older as in business you need a second language and I was getting a head start. I have never ever visited the country. I have never ever used the language and I am in business and have never come across anyone who would use this language .Even at O level I had to choose this language over typing.
Typing would have been more useful.

An extra language is great but make sure it is fun and your child actually wants to do it.

But I don’t think the benefit really is in speaking another language. There are the side effects like lower dementia risk. And enriching our lives. I can’t really play the piano or do ballet. It doesn’t mean I have wasted all those hours in lessons. If you use that argument you might as well not study most things at school or do any extra curricular activities. You can guarantee most kids going to ballet or gymnastics or football won’t do any of these professionally.

Its a fab idea but Mandarin is really hard. I learned French, Spanish, German and Latin at school and Italian at night classes, but Mandarin is so difficult because of the intonation and also the fact that the written text bears no relation to the spoken language directly. I agree Spanish would be a great one to learn - it sounds amazing too!

* I actually have a friend who I see regularly who is Italian, would it be rude to ask her and offer money for her time to teach him Italian?*

Shouldn't he be getting a better standard of teaching than this!? Just because someone has the necessary subject knowledge it doesn't mean they can teach. One 25 min lesson a week won't really cut it either.

OP. I would recommend italki, where you can find some great teachers for a reasonable price. It’s conducted mainly via Skype and is one to one so would be perfect for homeschooling and there are many who specialise in teaching children.

You can also have a few trials so you can find the right teacher.

I would definitely choose Italian or Spanish for a first language as they are phonetic, have many cognates and wonderful grammar systems.

As for your DH tell him that bilingualism is fantastic for the brain. All the skills of logic, memory and pattern recognition are improved and there’s evidence that it’s beneficial in combatting dementia later on in life.

Good luck

Head, I see what you're saying. In addition, though, I think it's a mistake to think of languages solely in terms of getting to a professional standard (teacher, translator, etc). The thing I wished I'd realised at school is this: the point of languages is communication. I speak ropey French and Italian. I make mistakes with the grammar. I forget words. But I can still talk to people. And given that the other people also want to communicate, they're prepared to put up with me speaking badly.

After years at school feeling so constrained by knowing I wasn't doing things perfectly, it's been so liberating to realise that it doesn't matter - so long as I can talk to people, I'm doing just fine. Obviously, there's an incentive to get better so I can talk to people more fluently - but actually any linguistic skill is better than none, and the more effort you put in, the more you get back - even if you will never get perfect.

I work internationally and have a masters in Chinese as well as a bachelors degree in Russian and a post graduate diploma in Spanish. I also speak two other languages fluently. When I have been recruiting at Graduate Fairs for large Corporate firms we look at those with languages first. It's just a fact. Languages demonstrate more than just your knowledge of a language, it is testament to an international perspective, open-mindedness and the flexibility to adapt to situations. It is also quite clever ;-).

Strike now while the iron is hot. Spanish highly recommended both in terms of ease of learning, access to native speakers and proximity to the country. My kids started learning Spanish young and even if they never speak it later, it is incredibly useful just for stretching the mind.

But, just go ahead pick one. It's exciting, your child can learn about the culture and festivals, art etc. Language is the gift that keeps giving!

I speak several languages and worked as a foreign-language teacher and tutor for a few years and 25 minutes a week will not be enough especially for a complicated language like Mandarin.

I clearly remember having a few parents getting upset that their young child who I only saw once a week for an hour and half couldn't have full-on conversation in the language they were learning after 2 months of classes and I had to explain to them that I had effectively only seen their child for a total of 12 hours and that if children could become fully bilingual after 12 hours of classes everyone taking basic classes at school would end up bilingual (which obviously isn't the case). People don't realize that fluency come with practise. I know a lot of bilingual or even trilingual children but they all have parents who come from different countries and speak different languages or attend a school in a foreign language full-time. For a child to become fluent he needs to be expose to the language as much as possible.

With an 1h30/week for a year children would often improve their vocabulary, learn some sentences (learn/improve their grammar if they were older) but not much more and with so little time a good chunk of the lesson would be spent having to refresh their memory regarding what we had been seeing and doing in the last class. With 25 minutes a week your kid would barely learn a few words (which I guess is better than most) but a bit of a waste of money yes considering he would probably forget them very quickly without practise.

I definitely think everyone should learn a second language if they can but I would suggest you pick a language you can also help him implement at home. It's easier to have access and read books in Spanish to him than it would be for you to read in Mandarin for example. It would also be cheaper to go to Spain from the UK so he can practise a bit every year than it would be to go to China. Also look into meetup groups for expats in specific languages in your area to see if you could join with your child so he can play in the foreign language you pick with other children. The more he hears and practise the language the more he will benefit and remember.

We took advice on this. In terms of developing neural pathways, to make other future language learning more accessible, learning Mandarin can be an excellent idea. Where are you OP? I'll PM you.

Just a suggestion- the app duolingo can be a good way to try and assist with the learning of languages! May be worth checking out

It's unusual for children not to be taught a second language and it also unusual for children to actually end up fluent in that language. Only do it if you intend to do it properly.

Nobody learns Mandarin / Cantonese or Japanese effectively outside of the respective countries, no matter how early you start. Best to start with languages which are similar to English or other languages you are familiar with - German is a good one. Alternatively if you live in an Indian area then Hindi is immensely useful. We spoke Hindi and another Indian language at home, they have similar grammar structures to French and Spanish and Arabic and I have been able to learn all three fairly easily.

I'd recommend duolingo for minimum 9/10 years for a motivated child.

Learning a second language is a good idea, but I am not sure about Mandarin. One for a country you are likely to visit seems best I think.

Personally I wouldn’t teach your DS Italian. It’s only of use in one country (unless you plan to visit Ethiopia). Better to learn Spanish which is of much more use in the world. My DH is Italian and we have a house there, so my DS is being brought up bilingual, but if there’s no previous language connection then Spanish is a better option.

italian is a good, basic language.

but I would go for a language for which there is a good teacher nearby for regular lessons.

look at:

• home school language groups
• home school immersion groups
• mouth to mouth recommendations
• language institutes (institute francsjs, goethe institut)
• local libraries

My son is bilingual, English plus my native language. However it has taken years of daily exposure and holidays in my country. If you want him to end up with a decent level, don't pick Chinese. He won't have enough exposure to get passed a very basic level. In the future, most Chinese people he meets are bound to have better level of English than his Chinese, so it would become redundant.

I think Spanish or German are good options.

Also I would not ask your friend, unless she's used to teaching her own language. I've taught my language before and it's not an easy job to explain your own grammar unless you've learnt how to do it. For practising conversation, if you decide to go for italian, she'd probably be great. Providing she likes children and has the patience