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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To employ an established painter / decorator to paint my new house without being called a racist?

62 replies

Hiptrip · 17/12/2017 10:40

I’ve just moved into a new house and mentioned to a neighbour that I am having some cosmetic decorating work inside.

The next day there was a knock at the door, and I found a man there wanting to give me a quote for the job. I’ve already promised the work to someone so I refused him. He got quite aggressive but left when I threatened to call the police.

I’ve been to the neighbour and asked her politely not to send her friends and family over to pitch for work, unless they have references and declare their earnings. She’s not British born nor was the person who she sent. They’ve not been living in the UK long, and she called me a racist.

I want to employ local tradesmen and women with a good reputation, and am happy to pay them properly to work for me. I’m not interested in anyone who wants to undercut them and take cash only, no matter how good they claim to be.

OP posts:

donquixotedelamancha · 17/12/2017 11:42

YABU to say this to your neighbour: "not to send her friends and family over to pitch for work, unless they have references and declare their earnings."

I don't think those are unreasonable expectations. If she said it to the neighbour like that, it was a bit rude, but I'm sure she was just condensing for MN. Sending someone round without asking was very rude in the first place.

That's quite a large assumption to make and I think she was probably correct to identify it as racism on your part.

It's a very large and very unpleasant assumption to make that the OP is racist. OP was assuming nothing- she met the painter and he had no references and effectively told her he dodged tax. I'm not as fussed as the OP about supporting 'local' traders, but my parents are obsessed with it- their usual painter is black, but the point is that he's local and known.

You are the one being racist if you imagine the OP is describing characteristics of non-white tradesmen. Most minority ethnicity tradespeople declare their earnings and can provide evidence of previous happy customers.

TSSDNCOP · 17/12/2017 11:45

Give over. The minute the fella said he'd do the job for cash, you'd have been spot on to think he was dodging the tax. That's not conflating, racism or troping. If the neighbour doesn't want the aggro that will ensue by sending aggressive, tax dodging mates round on spec she shouldn't tip them off.

Amummyatlast · 17/12/2017 11:45

The OP has stated that he offered to do it for cash and that it would be cheaper for him/her, which is where the not paying taxes part comes in. We had a tradesman offer something similar, and it was really obvious that it was to dodge tax, so we didn't use them.

C8H10N4O2 · 17/12/2017 11:48

she met the painter and he had no references and effectively told her he dodged tax

Nope, in the original post neither references nor tax were mentioned. Just that he was aggressive. OP added the titbit about working for cash in a follow up but still there was no mention about references.

The one and only legitimate complaint in this situation was if someone was aggressive when being turned down for work.

The foreign status and everything else are irrelevant so why put them in? In particular why conflate that foreign status with tax dodging and lack of references is the foreign status is not a big issue here?

TheRottweiler · 17/12/2017 11:50

So, with the 'tradesman' (I use that word loosely) admitting that he could 'do it cheaper', I also would assume that he was trading illegally and was a 'tax dodger'. Nowt 'racist' about that at all.

I also will ONLY use 'local' tradesmen - couldn't give a fig as to whether they were black, brown, yellow, pink, white or green with purple spots, as long as they were local to my area.

Nowt 'racist' about that either.

hula008 · 17/12/2017 11:52

Sorry if I’ve missed it but how do you know your neighbour sent this person round?

C8H10N4O2 · 17/12/2017 11:56

Why assume doing something cheaper is tax dodging? " Discount for cash" - yes may well be but every job has multiple approaches and some will be cheaper.

I always get quotes from several people even when I have someone recommended. The quotes often vary quite a bit and they all include VAT on the quotes. However they frequently use different methods, sources of materials etc.

Daisy17 · 17/12/2017 11:57

If your neighbour sent him round then surely he IS local??

Aridane · 17/12/2017 11:58

Unsolicited pitching not OK. But, yes, your response to neighbour smacks of superiority, if not racism

extinctspecies · 17/12/2017 12:07

It's very unreasonable for the tradesman to come around touting for work without being invited to quote.

If the neighbour wanted to recommend him, she should have asked 'My friend/family member is a decorator and very good - here's his card if you want to invite him to give you a quote".

However, I don't really see the relevance of where anyone was born to the discussion. But if he was offering to work for cash, then you would have no guarantees for the work and he won't be telling the tax man.

WorraLiberty · 17/12/2017 12:24

I’ve been to the neighbour and asked her politely not to send her friends and family over to pitch for work, unless they have references and declare their earnings

See I would have opened with, "How dare you sent such an aggressive person to my door".

Otherwise it sounds like it's fine, as long as they have references and declare their earnings

Mrsdraper1 · 17/12/2017 12:35

YANBU to tell him you didn't need his services.
YANBU to politely ask your neighbour in future not to tell people to come round and offer to quote.
YABU to assume she knew that he is some kind of tax dodger. He may or may not be one. She may not know that.
YANBU with your question in the thread title, BUT....
If you said what you wrote here then you may have sounded to her like you were being racist.
I don't know if you are or you aren't but I can kind of see why your neighbour thinks you are if you said that. "Local" may mean one thing to you but sound different to another. Often racists are not as blatant as shouting abuse. Often it is implied with euphemisms like "local". May not be what you meant but it could be perceived that way.

ZigZagandDustin · 17/12/2017 12:48

You've said nothing that indicates how you are aware of whether this person declares his earnings or not, so if that is the case and you just said it to this woman then the implication is that you took one look st the man and assumed by the look of him that he doesn't. Is that how it happened? Because if so then you are way out of line. And yes, racist.

Him being aggressive is a separate issue.

donquixotedelamancha · 17/12/2017 12:53

Nope, in the original post neither references nor tax were mentioned.

They were:

asked her politely not to send her friends and family over to pitch for work, unless they have references and declare their earnings

She explicitly says why she thought he wasn't paying tax in her second post. I don't think it's unreasonable to infer that he came without references, given her repeated references to wanting references.

I'll admit it's perfectly possible that she's racist (I don't think the clipped tone of the OP helped) and is making wild assumptions, but to assume her motivation is racism is a wild assumption. Personally I think people who leap to describe others as racist with little evidence are pretty unpleasant.

LIZS · 17/12/2017 13:01

Yabu to make assumptions about the residency and tax status of either of them and rebuke your neighbour. Not to refuse him the opportunity if you have already someone lined up.

headintheproverbial · 17/12/2017 13:04

There's nothing wrong with wanting to hire someone you know ans trust and definitely nothing wrong with asking someone to leave who is being aggressive.

But actually to start talking about right to work in the country simply because they are not, as you say, British born does make you sound racist.

TSSDNCOP · 17/12/2017 13:26

Only on MN would you get anyone saying that just because a fella offers to do a job for Cash because it’s cheaper doesn’t mean they’re dodging tax. There’s one thing to bend an argument, it’s quite another to make yourself sound really stupid doing it.

If I asked the first 100 people I met after leaving my house that question, I would bet my teeth no one would say “yes I’m certain that chap is a fully paid up HMRC vat and tax payer”. They might chose to use him, but they’d know bloody well what his game was.

C8H10N4O2 · 17/12/2017 13:40

Only on MN would you get anyone saying that just because a fella offers to do a job for Cash because it’s cheaper doesn’t mean they’re dodging tax

the OP never mentioned cash initially - the post conflated foreign origin with tax dodging and poor work practices.
there are many reasons why tradespeople like cash which have nothing to do with tax. Suppliers often want paying in cash, cash is easier to manage in small businesses etc. I pay window cleaner, cleaner, odd jobs etc in cash and they all give me headed receipts for the money.
One of my siblings runs a building contractor. When he was young and less experienced the first thing he learned was to have two quotes ready. Both were declared and VAT'd (once he was big enough for VAT) but if he didn't offer a 'cash' price the work would go elsewhere. Its the customers usually who want to evade tax.

ButchyRestingFace · 17/12/2017 13:58

I’ve been to the neighbour and asked her politely not to send her friends and family over to pitch for work, unless they have references and declare their earnings.

This was a bit much, I think.

If the bloke was as aggressive as you say, I would have told the neighbour I didn't want her sending anyone over, irrespective of what references or tax status they have.

Battleax · 17/12/2017 15:01

That's a very fair post donquixote

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 17/12/2017 15:03

C8H10N4O2

Why assume doing something cheaper is tax dodging? " Discount for cash" - yes may well be but every job has multiple approaches and some will be cheaper

Oh come off it. Are you really that naive? "Discount for cash" why on earth would any legitimate tradesman offer a discount for cash?

sagamartha · 17/12/2017 15:59

Discount for cash" why on earth would any legitimate tradesman offer a discount for cash

Saves transaction charges.
Bank charges

Having cash is handy for petty cash.

Banks do charge for cheques, BACS etc for businesses

Battleax · 17/12/2017 16:10

TBF "discount" for cash does have an age-old significance.

Battleax · 17/12/2017 16:11

"Discount for cash", I mean.

C8H10N4O2 · 17/12/2017 16:17

Oh come off it. Are you really that naive? "Discount for cash" why on earth would any legitimate tradesman offer a discount for cash?

Because people expect it. As I explained in my post - when sibling started up he was advised by the more experienced always to have two prices to quote, even though both are declared.

I was responding to the suggestion that the only reason for cash was to dodge taxes. I gave three situations from my own knowledge where it wasn't.

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