School Play + girls can't audition for boys parts

[Cobblersandhogwash]

This year's school play is Oliver Twist.

Dd (Year 6) has been told by the deputy head that girls can't audition for the boys parts because the Year 8 boys will get those as it's their last year at the school and they shouldn't be "disappointed". Years 7 and 8 are boys only at dd's school.

Dd is pretty hacked off about this as she really wanted to try out for the Artful Dodger and now she can't. It's her last year too before she goes off to secondary school.

I've emailed the deputy head to ask why he's done this but I've had no response.

Aibu to think this is really unfair on the girls and other brilliant actors at the school who happen not to be boys and in Year 8?

There is a reason why as soon as it was allowed - after the Restoration - English stage directors began casting women as women. It worked better than having men and boys playing women. I cannot see a man making much of a hit as Lady Macbeth and when I saw a lad of 15/16 play her in a school production the effect was preposterous although he was quite a good actor; he doubled in one of the male parts so I can say that. It's never going to be ideal. My DS's (boys') school did its plays jointly with a girls' school to the benefit of both.

I agree that some parts rely heavily on the man-ness or woman-ness of a character, and Lady Macbeth is one of them. It's hard to maintain the suspension of disbelief when there are too many central clashes unless played for comedic effect (e.g. the classic Helena/Hermia scene with the heights the wrong way round).

But for most of the characters in Oliver! it simply doesn't matter, just as it doesn't matter that adults are being played by children, because the important feature is the poverty or ignorance or greed or ruthlessness or whatever.

@Noeuf I don't think parents who drive their children around are 'pushy' as such, but we there are certain children that if we went strictly off pure talent and experience, would play the lead role every single time. That's not fair to other students who may be just as keen to have a go but don't have the years of experience. It's a school performance, where all kids should have a chance. It's not about the feeling's of the parent who has driven around for hours feeling sad that they aren't playing the lead role, we are there for the children, not to fulfil the facebook dreams of a parent.

That doesn't mean that Sally, who has played a part in a major stage musical doesn't get to 'shine', and in fact, Sally can often benefit from being part of a team and may get to be on the school netball team instead which she also enjoys but never gets a chance to play outside of school because she's performing several nights per week. Likewise, Joe may get a shot in the school musical, because he plays representative cricket on the weekend, and never gets to do any performance style work. And the way it works at our school, Sally won't get to be the lead in the musical, but she volunteers to work as a mentor to the actors and use her experience to help them. And Joe is not playing on the cricket team, but is the 'assistant coach' and helps other students who do not get regular professional coaching and supports the team.

@MidniteScribbler everything you said seems fair enough (parity between sports and arts) but 'Facebook dreams' of the parents? That's a crappy insult really. My child wants to perform, gets paid to perform at times and I certainly have enough of my own ambitions to be proud but not forcing him just so I can post on Facebook.

If the biggest concern is that parents gets upset at seeing their child as the second donkey on the left in a school play, when the child has opportunities of being paid to perform elsewhere, then yes, I think it is the parent's own ego that is being stroked and they are looking at it from a very selfish point of view, when there are 793 other students in the school who may also like to have a chance at a role on stage (and who have parents who would equally like to see them have a chance).

That was in the context of sports teams still selecting the best players and only the arts being an open to all option.

However if you can't understand where I'm coming from that's up to you.

penggwyn I think the most likely answer to that is that it's a London or city prep school where most girls' senior schools begin at 11 but mixed and boys' seniors start at 13. Many city day preps struggle to keep their girls after 11 so some just give up.

Terrible play choice if they are bothered in any way about equity of participation.

Terrible decision-making too.

YANBU

YABU to refer to your DC as having "trained with LAMDA" since age 4. Doing LAMDA exams isn't "training with LAMDA".

Actually, it may not be your DC - you refer to "three of the Year 6 girls"

By the same token, my DD has been training with the Royal School of Music.

Thanks for asking Pengggwin. I was just about to ask the same. Can't get my head round a mixed school to Yr 6 then all the girls leaving and the boys staying until Yr 8. Where do they do then, then ?

Because a traditional public school begins at 13. So the norm was to stay at prep till end of y8. But girls day Schools, especially in cities, take from age 11 so, if the parent wants a girls day school, they end up feeling forced to leave atv11 for fear of a place not being available at 13 or their child not settling as well 2 years late

It's a totally shit choice of play if you have boys and girls to cast and so has clearly been selected to intentionally ensure that all the main parts are for the boys (with the exception of Nancy)

Most musicals have more parts for boys than girls.

Pengywn - pretty much all boys public schools start at 13.

Many will select boys from primaries which finish at 11, offer places from 13 but put the successful children into their pet prep school for a couple of years. If the children are already at a prep which goes to 13, they'll stay there until they go to Eton (or whatever).

I know schools that generally won't accept children into y7 from local schools which have y7 and y8. Gentlemen's agreement not to poach. Obviously if a child is known to be unhappy at School A (y4-y8) then School B (small y7-y8 then full y9-y13) may exercise their discretion, but it's understood that you follow the standard pattern unless extenuating circumstances apply.

When I worked at a feeder prep, the big public schools (Eton, Harrow, Winchester, etc) were already selecting from within our y6 let alone y7 and y8, for y9 entry. So yes, plenty of time to explore other options if Plan A looks unlikely.

So the deputy head has now changed his mind and allowed the year 6 girls to audition for any part they like.

At least they feel like they're in the running for a main part now instead of being stopped to avoid the "disappointment" of the year 8 boys.

I was just wondering - how many girls in year 6 and how many boys in year 8?

Preps giving their upper school pupils various perks is terribly common, and as it's pretty rare for them to change at that point (the vast majority are single-sex or co-ed all through), staff have probably never thought of unintended consequences for year 6.

Isn't there a year 6 production? In the summer after 11+? What else do the leaving year 6s do in that last term?

Just out of interest when the role still goes to a Year7/8 boy as it probably will and the main female roles have all been allocated elsewhere and your dd gets a minor role how will you feel then? You do realise too that all the Year 8 boys will now want to try out for Nancy just because it will be a laugh and waste everyone's time.
As for 'trained by LAMDA' what does that mean exactly? Is it just that they have private speech and drama lessons? I have taught drama. speech ,musical theatre for many years and the kids did LAMDA exams but they were' trained' by Miss Planet not LAMDA

Actually the deputy head has now allocated the role of Oliver and Artful Dodger to be played by year 6 pupils.

The other main roles for years 7+8.

Weird he's changed his mind.

And I couldn't care less what role dd ends up with. If any. As long as she has the opportunity to audition. That's the point.