To ask whether snow day = fully paid day off for you?

[temporarynamenothingtoseehere]

I am following a row on Twitter with a lot of high-profile teachers getting very cross indeed that they are expected either to use snow days for PPA (planning and assessment admin) or lose a day's pay.

I do understand that losing a day's pay is horrible if your place of work is closed and you don't have the choice of whether or not to work.

However, I'm surprised by the expectation that professional adults should expect a fully paid day off with no work when it snows. I've never worked anywhere where that was the case - you don't come in if it's dangerous to do so, but you either work from home or lose a day's pay.

AIBU to think that's the norm?

you don't come in if it's dangerous to do so, but you either work from home or lose a day's pay.

As a teacher, if your school was open and you couldn't get in, you would not be paid and therefore, it is exactly the same as your scenario, OP.

YABU to then twist the argument to not include the fact that if your place of work was physically shut and you had no choice, this would then be paid in the majority of jobs, not just teaching.

I can see why your argument on Twitter is going round and round in circles if you can't see how your scenario is not the same as a complete school/place of work closure.

If work is open but I can’t get in, it’s unpaid.

If work is shut, it’s paid.

We are expected to work from home on a snow day. We all have laptops that we are supposed to carry with us, but some people leave theirs in their locker so wouldn't be able to wfh. In that case they either take flexi or a days leave.

We can't close because we have boarders so they need teaching whatever.

I didn't ask whether the staff who couldn't get in didn't get paid. But there were only one or two not in anyway so I really don't mind if they were paid. In theory, I think that if you choose not to go in you shouldn't get paid but if you aren't given the option then you should. But it would get quite complicated that way because a lot make it but arrive late due to waiting for ice to melt and digging their car out of the drive. So you'd have to work out how much absence counted as absence.

Also, I think in the case of a lot of school closures, the adults are all in anyway to clear the site so it's safe for the following day. That was the case in the day school over the road from me.

It would just be a day of PPA for me that I wouldn’t have to do on the next weekend or the holiday. I would have a very detailed log of work done and hours completed ready to email to any governor, head or business manager who dared to suggest not paying me.

I worked for a notoriously tight arsed employer previously and even THEY wouldn't dock your pay if you couldn't make it in for a snow day.

Wasn't their some silly rule that a teacher who couldn't make it to their normal school because of bad weather should head to their nearest school within walking distance and teach there for the day? What could possibly go wrong?

Rolyrocks, I've never known a workplace other than a school to close because of snow so I don't know how that would work.

I don't see that it's hugely different to compare working from home on a snow day to asking teachers to spend the time doing their PPA though?

At dd's school boarders would stay in the boarding house & be cared for by the matrons if school had to close.

There's only office staff who can work from home, then it isn't always possible. Those with sensitive info or particular systems may not be able to use these outside the office. If your place is closed and you can't work from home, yes you should be paid as it isn't your fault and you are willing/able to work.

I have family and friends who are teachers, one of them is moaning about being asked to do her PPA. And yet her partner who works in the private sector has done admin without moaning when asked to.

With my job I couldn't do my normal role but I would be able to plan out my week and get all of my admin done for that week.

My place of work has never closed completely. There have been days where I haven't been able to get there. Either you work from home if possible, you take a days leave, you take a days leave from your next years leave if you have none left or you lose a days pay.

Now, if they told me the office was closed and I wasn't therefore able to go even if I wanted to, I think I wouldn't expect to take a off/lose pay, but I would try to do whatever work I could.

And, in addition to the above, we did have a period of time where the vast majority of people were unable to get into the office and for one of those days, the transport that the company provides was cancelled. Anyone absent on that day regardless of whether they took the company transport did not lose a day.

Do you understand that PPA cannot be easily completed from home? And that PPA time is used for meetings/physically creating resources that cannot be done on a snow day? So therefore by taking it away, you’re forcing those teachers to just do MORE unpaid overtime?

It isn’t doing the work at home that teachers are objecting to, it’s the removal of PPA time on return to school.

In the case of teachers, if there's a snow day isn't the school year extended to make up for it? It is/was that way here (US) where the number of 'instructional' days is mandated by law. So if they expected the teacher to prepare lessons, etc on the snow day plus teach the 'make up day' then they're getting an extra day's work from the teacher. (Probably splitting hairs or making things complicated here)

I worked a civil service job and if the office closed we were paid administrative leave. If we couldn't get in due to road conditions but the office was open it was annual leave but would convert if the office closed. If we were in the office and a 'hazardous road condition alert' was called by local authority we were given admin leave to go home depending on where we lived and the roads we traveled.

When DH was a HT, he loved a snow day as much as the kids did. Of course the teachers were paid. He asked any living in the city near the school to come in and help with any kids who had turned up regardless, and told the rest that the "official expectation" was that they used the day for planning etc, but took no steps to check up on this, just let them spend the day sledging and snoozing as they saw fit.

If my workplace shuts then I would expect to get paid

If I can’t make it in but the workplace is open I would expect to have it unpaid or have to use AL.

My job can’t be done from home but in 12 years my workplace had never not opened, we very occasionally have an early finish due to issues with the building or extreme weather (a handful in 12 years).

AcrossthePond55 most Schools teach above the minimum required 185 days

Aren't teachers always moaning how they work evenings, weekends and school holidays doing marking, preparation, planning etc? So, surely they can't argue they need to be in school to do their work? It seems they manage to work from home when they're whingeing about long hours, but can't work from home when they're told to. Confused!

Rolyrocks, I've never known a workplace other than a school to close because of snow so I don't know how that would work.

When I got married in December 2010, the whole of Bluewater Shopping Centre shut (I couldn't get my wedding cake from Waitrose there!) so just because you have never known a workplace to shut, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

My husband works in Canary Wharf and at the same time, had his building closed and got paid for a "snow day" but somehow, I don't think you want to see how it would work

I think it’s pretty rubbish that people don’t get paid in these circumstances. Teachers do a lot of unpaid overtime as it is (I am not a teacher or married to one btw). Goodwill is worth a lot and if you feel appreciated, you’re more likely to put in that bit extra. No wonder this country is so unproductive because people just feel undervalued. How many MPs get their pay docked for not coming into work.

What? So if your work place is closed due to something that's nothing to do with you, you should expected to be not payed?
No wonder so many teachers are leaving profession.

scarydinosaurs

*Do you understand that PPA cannot be easily completed from home? And that PPA time is used for meetings/physically creating resources that cannot be done on a snow day? So therefore by taking it away, you’re forcing those teachers to just do MORE unpaid overtime?

It isn’t doing the work at home that teachers are objecting to, it’s the removal of PPA time on return to school.*

But they're getting a full day off from work.

No-one is telling them that their pay is being docked, nor are they being given any more work to do.

They are being expected to do the same amount of work, for the same pay.

They are just not being given a bonus paid day off (i.e. less work for the same pay).

Seems reasonable to me.

Also, lots of PPA can absolutely be done at home (marking/lesson planning/answering emails/making phone calls/writing reports/writing up assessments/updating resources etc). I would imagine most teachers could use a day working from home most productively.

I think the frustration is that teachers need to do planning/marking/admin anyway... if they are unable to get to work and do not have the right things at home then they will have to do it at another time - it makes no difference to the school whether they do it that day or at the weekend. I would be very cross if I lost a day's pay because I couldn't go into work due to an issue with the building (for example), or couldn't do work because our IT system was down...

I wouldn't be paid, but I don't begrudge teachers getting paid for a snow day. Its not their fault the school has closed and they work bloody hard for an absolute pittance.

I'm sure they more than make up for it with the amount of overtime they put it.

My old employers would not pay you if you didn't get to work on a snowy day. They would only pay you if THEY couldn't get to the office and because they lived approx. a five minute walk away they always got to the office. I lived and worked in a hilly, rural setting and could barely get out of the driveway if it snowed. I also had a VPN set up so that I could work from home but even then they wouldn't pay you as they wouldn't believe you were working!

I work in a school. When it’s shut for snow day or heating failure we’ve been paid.

Although one snow day I walked in and left early so didn’t know it had been shut to pupils and staff who ‘couldn’t safely travel.’
I was a little pissed off I was made to stay as I had made the effort and yet could have had paid leave like everyone else!