Dealing with a hoarder

[Flippertyjibbetty]

Relative has had a heart attack.

She is a crazy hoarder. I don't think she can go back to her flat while recovering. She shuffles from room to room- about a foot's clearance in living room, kitchen, has limited use of the bathroom. Haven't seen bedroom but she doesn't have heating because it broke at some point and with the hoarding she can't have someone in to repair it. We're talking years without central heating btw.

I'm about to have a baby. No one else can sort out this relative in the family.

Need advice on how to help them. I don't think a private company who will come and clear stuff will help because she won't allow stuff to be thrown out.

I am about to go on mat leave. Which frees me up to sort through it but then I don't think it would be safe to take the baby.

In the interim she's going to have to live with us or we'll have to sort somewhere for her to live.

I want to make it as stress free for her as well, I can't stand her but don't imagine that it will be easy after a heart attack. Which is my concern about throwing money at the issue and hiring someone in.

[NoStraightEdges]

What does she think should happen once she's discharged from hospital?

[Tessliketrees]

Use the word vulnerable adult, a lot

That won't help.

Vulnerable Adult =/= child. Also it's Adult with Care and Support Needs now.

Adults can choose to live how they like within the law.

[just5morepeas]

Unless she has treatement, wherever she lives she will eventually hoard it.

Step back and get her help.

[Flippertyjibbetty]

She just expects to go back to her flat, and she would want to go back and get her things.

We haven't discussed it yet to be honest - DH might have mentioned moving out to her today - to think through the options for myself before I'm pushed into anything by circumstance or force of personality (hers not my DH).

[Flippertyjibbetty]

'No no no we're not getting into all that, no social services, it will just stress her out more...cardiac nurses won't know anything about housing'...

That was a constructive start to my mentioning it...

Being stressed out surely better than being in a dirty flat w no heating and possibly mice after a heart attack?!?

[Tessliketrees]

No no no we're not getting into all that, no social services, it will just stress her out more...cardiac nurses won't know anything about housing

Honestly from what you have described social services can do very little anyway so this idea that you can "step back" and let them "deal" with it is really unrealistic.

Will she let a social worker into her home? Will she let occupational therapy into her home? If she does let them will she then agree to go into a care home until the situation is resolved (because that is what they will offer if they think it's unsafe)? Will she pay for the clearance? Does she manage her own money? Will she even acknowledge a problem? Will she give permission for social services to talk to you and DH?

[dingdongdigeridoo]

Agree with PP who have said not to move her into cottage. It’ll get wrecked too.

Hoarding is such a shitty MH issue and I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this. It’s one of the hardest ones to tackle, as you often make a little progress then they go right back to it. It can’t be emphasised enough that simply cleaning the house won’t cure them. It sends them into a spiral. My great-aunt had this and my grandparents would empty her house every time she was in hospital, only for it to be filled again, quicker each time. GPs died, and then it was my dad and aunt left to take care of her mess. It’s awful. I think they were relieved when she died and they could send in people with shovels to clear the place. I’m not kidding. People had to shovel the crap into bags.

You honestly need to take a big step back and get her as much outside help as possible. For your own sanity.

[Flippertyjibbetty]

Will have to work on getting her help. Once they are both ready to accept it.

I don't really want her living in the holiday home because I will despise it (totally selfish I know) because she will make it hers and I won't enjoy it anymore.

DH talking about putting her in a cheap hotel when she comes out of hospital. Maybe that will impress upon them both the need to do something- him because he'll be having to pay for it until it's sorted (can't see it lasting more than a week or two) and she'll get fed up of living in a hotel (I think- possibly not?!).

So stupid that something that starts out of wanting to keep memories and save things that might be useful/ cost money turns into something that costs you money and prevents you living your life.

[AJPTaylor]

Experience in my family. Spent approx 160 man hours between 8 of us clearing relatives property. A year later it was back the same. Adult social services and fire brigade horrified but i have been told its lifestyle choice.
Focus on your lovely baby

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

Step back.... step back...

You MUST prioritise your own health, and that of your baby.

Your DH will need your support, eventually, but he has a lot more guilt to work through than you do. Jus step back and let him work through it all. Let him talk to you, don't push if you feel resistance but do STAY FIRM she can't move in with you.

I fear you are in for the long haul. We were lucky, SFIL was also a chronic alcoholic and didn't outlive MIL by much. And yes, I know how bad that sounds, but, seriously, that was all that saved us / me becoming very stressed, possibly ill with it all!

Your DH will eventually realise that he simply does not have the knowledge to help his DM. He will have to get some outside help!

[RunRabbitRunRabbit]

Step back. Step right back.

I have hoarders in my family. It is very very sad.

You will have enough on your plate with a newborn.

Your MIL is not your problem. As a kind human being you want to help. You can't. It is a serious MH condition that she's had for years. Even her own son hasn't been able to help.

Leave it to DH to speak to nursing staff to make sure someone does a home visit check before she's discharged. This kind of thing is sadly quote common and the services know how to deal with it.

Wherever she lives will rapidly be filled with crap. She needs it like an alcoholic needs a drink. If you can afford for your holiday home to end up like her flat then write it off put her in it. Be prepared to have to move her again in less than 2 years, when you need to redecorate, or something breaks or the neighbours complain, or the rats get bad. Be prepared to spend a small fortune getting it back to normal afterwards and her fury at you doing so. I am speaking from sad experience of my family.

She won't want to move out of her flat anyway. She needs to be there with her things to feel safe.

Don't take her mental health as a load onto your shoulders. You won't get anywhere and it will break you.

[Flippertyjibbetty]

Dingdong- that's awful. I'm sorry to hear about that. Must have been so stressful for everyone involved.

Stuff has accumulated over years/decades so it won't come back within weeks but she does take home free newspapers and keep those etc...and anything that might be useful/ could give to someone etc.

She manages her own money, is on a pension. Outwardly you wouldn't think she lived like that except that she's always got lots of bags etc. Major pride issues so she wouldn't willingly let someone in to help, I don't think.

Was stunned she let me in a few years ago, no one had been at her property for years. It was only because she had mice then and saw the need to clear to deal with the mice- in the end the mice only went away because a neighbour got an exterminator we think, they were coming from flat below.

I'm frustrated with my DH but maybe it's just too soon for him to think about it.

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

this idea that you can "step back" and let them "deal" with it is really unrealistic. Sadly, whilst you are right, it is very hard to get any outside agency to help, there is absolutely bugger all any well meaning family member or friend can do to help! It really is impossible to get any meaningful solution.

What's that saying about teaching a pig to sing? It really is apt for this situation!

Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

[RunRabbitRunRabbit]

Has DH taken any professional advice on how to support a hoarder?

[Tessliketrees]

Sadly, whilst you are right, it is very hard to get any outside agency to help, there is absolutely bugger all any well meaning family member or friend can do to help!

There is also bugger all any outside agency can do if the person doesn't want help.

It's not a case of it being "very hard" it's a case of it not be legal for the state to intervene in an adults life when they don't want them to. (Again within the law etc).

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

Stuff has accumulated over years/decades so it won't come back within weeks but she does take home free newspapers and keep those etc...and anything that might be useful/ could give to someone etc. You don't understand. The current collection took years, she was growing into her 'habit'.

The level of hoarding she currently lives with is now her norm, she will do what she needs to do to get to that level as quickly as possible. It is what she needs to feel safe. Think of it as a heroin users dosage... it grows slowly then, after an enforced period of abstinence they go back to their previous dosage, or higher.

It isn't logical. You cannot apply normal thinking to it!

[Flippertyjibbetty]

Rabbit

Ok between you and curious and others I'm sufficiently encouraged to back off. I will press DH to raise with nurses and see if a home visit can be organised.

I strongly suspect he won't but you are all right that the baby needs to come first. The baby I should add that MIL was mad about when she heard about because she hates me but that's another story- as much as I hate her I don't wish her any illness or earlier death because she's my DH's only family.

Sympathy with everyone who has been through this kind of thing and thanks for your kind words and advice. I will not offer that she stays in the holiday home (not yet anyway- doesn't sound like a solution). My tendency is to try to fix everything and then blame myself when I can't cos I've taken on too much.

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

It's not a case of it being "very hard" it's a case of it not be legal for the state to intervene in an adults life when they don't want them to. I'm not quite sure why you are so irritated by my response, I was, partially, agreeing with you! Just disagreeing with your assessment that stepping back wasn't possible. It is as inevitable as the lack of assistance from external agencies, for much the same reasons.

[MHEP]

I'm a social worker and I've worked with people who hoard. You must ensure that the hospital know how unsafe her home is. They will then refer to social services.

There are no quick or easy answers to addressing hoarding. They key issue will be if they have capacity to make decisions about relevant issues. If they don't have capacity, social services can take steps to make decisions on their behalf.

[Flippertyjibbetty]

No, DH hasn't taken any professional advice. He doesn't recognise/ is in denial about it being a MH issue.

I suspect in part because she's clearly bonkers and manipulative and would unleash hell if she thought we were 'calling services' on her or something like that. She would never accept help that had any MH overlay. Would accept someone helping to clear I think, within her parameters but I don't think that's the kind of thing you're likely to get.

[Tessliketrees]

I'm not quite sure why you are so irritated by my response, I was, partially, agreeing with you

I wasn't, I apologise for my poor choice of phrasing.

[Tessliketrees]

If they don't have capacity, social services can take steps to make decisions on their behalf

No they can't. Fucking hell.

[laudanum]

Hoarding is a form of OCD, and usually manifests itself after a huge traumatic event in someones life, particularly loss. If the loss is something that cannot be fixed or replaced, then they tend to self replace by amassing things, which can be anything from actual useful objects, to refuse etc. Typically they're trying to fill a void, but as we know, some things can never be filled in that sense. It's not necessarily like that for every hoarder, but a good chunk of them do have a very traumatic experience in their past.

There are different levels of hoarding, and the ones you see on TV in those godawful shows tend to be the worst, mainly because heartless TV execs like to exploit them for ratings.

If you remove a hoarder from their situation without the proper care and handling, they will almost certainly build up a new hoard, in this case it would be in whatever space you grant her. Realistically, you cannot healthily help her with this, you absolutely do need to inform social services. As much as this might upset your partner, he cannot ask you to take this on because it's not something you can handle alone. It takes specialist treatment to work through, and even then relapses are rampant.

Good luck.

[Flippertyjibbetty]

I don't want to enrage her/ him by telling the nurses her home is unsafe. Will they do nothing if she doesn't agree- would it need to be as much as a capacity issue before they got involved?

I doubt she would be declared incapable of making decisions for herself (I know nothing about what the thresholds are). She certainly is capable of understanding things etc and making her own medical decisions.

[MHEP]

It's not a case of it being "very hard" it's a case of it not be legal for the state to intervene in an adults life when they don't want them to. (Again within the law etc).

Not true Tessliketrees. The state can intervene when the person does not want them to, if the person lacks capacity and they are putting themselves at risk (Mental Capacity Act). The state can also intervene if the person meets the criteria to be sectioned (Mental Health Act). There are situations where intervention can also take place under environmental health law.