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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I know IABU, but why do so many boys have first names that sound like surnames?

54 replies

Coastalcommand · 11/12/2017 16:02

And so many girls have two first names (not a Christian and middle name, but two first names)?

I have been given a list of names to write out for a local Christmas party (I like to do calligraphy and I volunteered). But I don't know the kids and now I can't work out which names are 'firstname surname' and which are 'surname firstname'. Also I can't work out which are first and which are middle names.

Made up example:
Ava May Smith for girls
Mason Harrison for boys.

It's all so Americanised.

There isn't space to write every name in full (and for it to look half-decent).

OP posts:
MrsMoastyToasty · 11/12/2017 16:38

My DS has 3 Christian names and all of them are scottish clan names, so can be used as either surnames or first names. (Confusingly our surname is also used as an aristocratic title )

BenLui · 11/12/2017 16:43

As others have said it’s not Americanised. Giving boys their mother’s maiden name or another family name as a first name is a very old tradition in Scotland.

It genuinely astounds me how many MNers are so unaware of the culture of their neighbouring Kingdoms.

We have threads every year complaining that Halloween is an American import (it’s ancient Scottish and Irish tradition)

We’ve had recent threads saying the “Santa” is American (nope, Scottish again) and that “gotten” is American (wrong again).

Seriously people,Scotland isn’t that far away.

We have beautiful scenery, lots of lovely castles, gorgeous beaches, ancient sites, distilleries, great food and museums to visit as well as having cultural events like the Festival, Celtic connections and Hogmanay on offer.

Aren’t you all a bit embarrassed to know so little about your neighbours?

hazeyjane · 11/12/2017 16:48

So are they all names like Mason Harrison? There must be some where the first name and surname is obvious. Can you not ask the person who you are volunteering for?

UsernameInvalid66 · 11/12/2017 16:52

in the 70s/80s it was Ashley, a popular girl's name

Are you in America? I've never met a female Ashley (of any spelling) born before about 1995, and I've known male ones younger than that.

re the Martin John/John Martin example, I met a guy with a name like that recently, and it turned out the person who was kind of the link between us had been calling him by the wrong name for ages!

Coastalcommand · 11/12/2017 16:55

I think part of the problem is it's come from a number of excel spreadsheets merged together. If I was better at Microsoft office I could fix this!

OP posts:
AlexaAmbidextra · 11/12/2017 16:56

Paradise. I call my name my Christian name as it is the name I was given when baptised into the Christian church.

derxa · 11/12/2017 16:57

I know men called Thompson, Campbell, Murray and Melville..
Here's a wee link to others...
www.namenerds.com/scottish/last.html

ChocolateCakeandTeaPlease · 11/12/2017 16:58

My son has a very 'surnamey' name and I am always slightly amused by the level of hatred towards it on MN! Grin we are in Scotland where it's quite normal.

The way I see it though, there are very few boys names I can think of that aren't used as surnames too, even if they are accepted as common first names. In five seconds of thinking about it I know people with the surname:

Scott
Jack
James
Steven
Daniel
Michael
Oliver
David
Peter
Martin

Etc etc. Once I realised this I was less angst-ridden about having ruined my son's life with a surname as a first name, per the MN Rules

SomewhatIdiosyncratic · 11/12/2017 17:00

I taught someone with a first name that was most commonly a surname, and a surname that was more commonly a first name. When things were issued in surname-first name order, he constantly "corrected" them to the wrong way round as he thought it was an error. (I could tell by other names that it had been done correctly). I'm guessing his names could be frustrating for him!

ZoeWashburne · 11/12/2017 17:06

@UsernameInvalid66

No, UK. Ashley is definitely one of those peak 80s names to me, like Tiffany or Stacey.

It's one of the examples in Freakonomics. But going by celebrities, 70s/80s was peak Ashley before it started to trickle down to others. Think Ashley Judd, Ashley Olsen. But then also Ashley Cole, so it shows that it was a transition period.

Regardless, this thread just really smacks of ethnocentrism. Just because one person cannot figure out a name, doesn't mean it is a trend or a foreign influence. And even if it was 'foreign' how about you just write it they way it is given to you, or clarify with the person who gave you the list. Names aren't the same in every culture, they aren't the same everywhere. Carol is a common man's name in eastern Europe. Harvey is a woman's name in parts of India. Just because you are used to one thing, doesn't mean it is a new brash trend.

I would hate to see the reaction to having to invite Boutros Boutros Ghali somewhere. I imagine it like Catherine Tate character talking about Shitake Mushrooms.

therealposieparker · 11/12/2017 17:06

I have to say though DS is nearly 16 and it wasn't a thing then, now it does seem to be a "thing" and rather less tasteful. As such I wonder if people make the same assumptions about my DS as I make about others! Xmas Wink

Hoppinggreen · 11/12/2017 17:24

My maiden name was one of these surnames that now get used as a boys name.
When I had it (until 16years ago) I had never heard of it used as a first name at all - DS has 2 in his year!!

RedToothBrush · 11/12/2017 17:31

Its a traditional thing not a new thing.

If you look through family history its very common as it was a way of keeping the family name of the mother's family or a grandparent's family name.

This meant that surnames became first names. Some grew in popularity and became first names within their own right and were used by some with no family history of the name.

Then there example's like Harrison, which would have originally a first name that became used more commonly as a surname. Harrison is Harry's son. Remember for a long time that surnames were not used at all. They were started out of necessity after the Norman conquest and the start of tax records.

If you had eight Johns living in a village before surnames were common place, how did you distinguish between them? Nicknames became more or less the only names people had. Names like Miller and Mason, were references to trade.

Again this is another point - its a modern invention to have a legal name. In the past people may have had more than one name during the course of their lifetime. They had no need to write a name down - and most were illiterate.

Its became more commonly used for middle names for a long time, but not exclusively. Middle names came much later than surnames again to distinguish between people with the same name. If you look through census and birth records you'll notice that middle names start to become popular around the mid 1800 after the industrial revolution and the explosion of the population. This is not a coincidence, it was out of necessity, especially since families called their children after their relatives meaning that it was very easy to have a considerable number of John Smiths in the same family.

In my family and in DH family the use of a surname as a middle name runs through several branches of the family, as recently as one of my grandmothers and one of DH's grandfathers. We decided to follow it for DS, who has four names (god you must hate that!), which is another revived tradition from DH's family.

The current trend is actually a revival of old traditions rather than something which is in anyway new. The idea that they are Americanisms is incorrect. Americans kept old traditions longer than many in England did (many were of Scottish and Irish decent it must be notice) and it didn't ever fall out of fashion in the same way.

Names tend to go in cycles of about hundred years anyway, with a modern twist on the old and some finding more favour than others. Why is Arthur popular and not Albert or Alfred for example. Instead they have more popular modern variations of Albie or Alfie.

People are not generally as original as they think. Its surprising how many people think they are picking something really unusual only to find three in their child's class and are surprised to find this out. (Thanks Mum!).

I'm a nerd

BrizzleDrizzle · 11/12/2017 17:32

The name trend that I find annoying is where a boy is given a name that is spelt more like it was a girl's name, for example Ashley/Ashleigh - I'd assume that Ashley was a boy and Ashleigh was a girl, though maybe that's incorrect.

As for surnames as names, I know it's common in Scotland but some of the names I've seen in England as first names don't seem to be much of a link to a Scottish heritage; unless Baker is a traditional Scottish surname/first name anyway.

blueskyinmarch · 11/12/2017 17:42

If we had had a boy at any point (3 girls!) he would have had a first name, two middle names and a surname all made up of names which could be first names or surnames. All Scottish names. Very normal here!

Strokethefurrywall · 11/12/2017 17:48

Both my sons have surnames for firstnames. DH is Scottish but that wasn't really a factor, we both just like surnames for first names. He has a surname for first name too, as did my brother.

DS1 has a much hated "American" surname for firstname
DS2 has an Irish surname for first name (not Riley)

They both have 2 surnames as middle names each as they're named after family.

thenewaveragebear1983 · 11/12/2017 18:13

By way of balance, my two boys both have a (very fashionable in the 90's) first name as a surname.

Coastalcommand · 11/12/2017 18:24

Some of the spellings are quite unusual too. I'm guessing in a few years they'll have to spell them out when giving out email addresses etc. I used to sit behind a woman who used to have to tell phone callers that her email address was 'Jane with a Y' about 50 times a day. Some of these sound as though you'd know how to spell them but have some real surprises.

OP posts:
Dixiestampsagain · 11/12/2017 18:47

I was about to say something along the lines of what RedToothBrush said but I won’t as she(?) did it better!

Dixiestampsagain · 11/12/2017 18:48

NB my DS has a surname for a first name, too (one that’s been mentioned).

InionEile · 11/12/2017 18:57

The surname as name thing is more annoying to me because people sometimes call my son by his surname because it has become a trendy first name. He has a (traditional not made up) Irish first name that people have difficulty with so I notice sometimes people assume his surname is his first name.

E.g. Seamus Cameron

‘Cameron, the doctor will see you now’ - aaaarggghh Angry

Coastalcommand · 11/12/2017 22:58

I've emailed the organiser for clarification. On the upside, the holly and squiggles by the names are looking better than I thought!

OP posts:
BackforGood · 11/12/2017 23:17

I hear you Coastal
I often have to look on a database where there are a LOT of names, and it gets really confusing particularly when you don't know if the name in the middle is the 2nd part of a first name, or the first part of a surname. Then the number of different ways there are that people spell some names!
As someone has said, yes, it is an irritation rather than a real problem, but it really is pain in the neck when either inputting data or trying to find someone on a database, and it happens over and over again.

SilverySurfer · 11/12/2017 23:29

I agree with you OP. I also don't understand why some parents feel the need to give their female babies really masculine names which seems a thing at the moment.

Prior to this latest trend, every thread on the Baby Board seemed to suggest giving daughters the middle names Rose or Mae/May or a hyphenated first name such as Maisie-Mae etc which was quite the reverse.

missiondecision · 11/12/2017 23:33

All best names are taken

Swipe left for the next trending thread