To stay in a political party I don't agree with 100%, or should I leave in protest?

[notheretoargue]

I've been feeling less and less welcome in the Labour Party over the last few years. I'm not a Corbynista, although I'm not virulently against him. I just think he's a bit disappointing in lots of ways, quite ineffective, and I really don't understand what he's doing with Brexit. I'm also Jewish, and am concerned about anti-semitism within the party. And I'm quite disturbed by momentum, who seem to expect/ demand unwavering loyalty to Jeremy Corbyn, and don't welcome much debate or conversation.

Anyway. My AIBU is - should I stay in the Labour Party and try to participate, make it better, or try to effect change at a very local level? Or should I leave and put my money and energies elsewhere? Elsewhere is not likely to be in politics, as I don't support any of the other parties either.

Debt grows and grows and grows.

Thanks alot Tories.

@makeourfuture

Did you read the thread or just paste previous responses to vaguely political posts?

Are you a poor disabled?

Biber on the anti-semitism stuff, here is a representative story:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-42168712

Too little, too late from the leadership.

I also follow these people on Twitter
twitter.com/LabourAgainstAS

And, from my personal experience, I have found the increase in antisemitism to be (a bit like the Corbyn cult) both very obvious and very hard to pin down. E.g. I had a conversation with a LP activist the other day when he said that if Jews in this country are not actively campaigning against Israel, then they are complicit in genocide. I was gobsmacked - this kind of opinion just wasn't discussed (openly) a few years ago. It makes me want to stay away. It makes me reulctant to talk about me or my DC being Jewish. It makes me scared.

Asthenia - you see, that kind of comment is kind of what I mean when I say that debate isn't really welcomed within the LP anymore. Are you laughing at me for having an opinion? Do you care what I think or, do you just want to dismiss me for disagreeing with you?

I left the Labour party. I still vote and at GE time campaign for them, but membership, right now, is not for me. I like most of Corbyn's policies. I would be delighted were Labour to win power. I may rejoin in the future. But I cannot abide personality cults, and I don't like the way debate is shouted down at present, and I don't think Labour is doing well with Brexit.

Lots of the facebook and email groups I am in respond to any criticism of Corbyn/ McDonnell as if it were treason. That's crap. Much as I disagree with the Blairite wing of the party, it's their bloody party too, they have a right to their views and to express them, and if they think Corbyn and McDonnell are harming the party they damn well have a right to call for change. It is not a dreadful, unspeakable betrayal that should see you deselected and expelled to publicly disagree with the party leadership- hell if it was, Jeremy would have been out years ago. Dissent is fine by me, has always been fine by me, and it annoys me that people waste their considerable energies and talents on internal policing rather than external promotion of the party and its policies.

sinceyouask that's it exactly. Perfectly summed up how I feel as well.

Labour is terrifying at the moment. I don't think I can vote for them again and I'm not sure who I can rely on. I'd never vote Tory. I'm considering joining the Lib Dems and fighting from within.

Not voting is basically the same as supporting the winning party isn't it? You're not sure who to vote for so you will allow others to make the decision for you. That's fine if you don't feel strongly about any of the parties. Also, agree with PPs who said that expecting to agree 100% with any political party is silly. You will need to decide what are the main issues for you that you absolutely will not compromise on and go from there. Some compromise will be required whichever party you end up voting for.

If you support Labour you can't vote for them because JC's Momentum runs it now. But if you support JC's Momentum you cant vote for them either because they wont stand for election.

So your forced to vote Labour and get Momentum, a party you dont want. Seems to me your vote goes to the wrong party whether or not you vote.

I am not Jewish but am concerned about the anti-semitism in the LP - the whitewash report from her who was in liberty was shocking. I am not a member of LP either so can't leave. But still vote labour as believe in a society for the many not the few. In your situation I would resign and let them know why

notheretoargue thanks for the links.

I too am not Jewish but the anti-semitism in Labour recently has put me right off them.

I'm actually member of the LibDems but have voted Labour tactically a few times and did vote for Sadiq Kahn as London Mayor, because I like him and hate the Tories.

However, I will not vote for the main Labour Party while Corbyn is at the helm. He didn't do enough, quickly enough about the anti-semitism in his ranks.

I'm from an ethnic minority group myself so feel very strongly about the anti-Jewish sentiment in Labour. It is terrible, dangerous and worrying. Personally OP if I were you I would abandon Labour until things improve. But perhaps that is defeatist of me?

I love the Lib Dems, ideologically, but their leadership is rubbish. Many people love Labour, but dislike the leadership, and are there any Tories who approve of their leadership?

Corbyn has the best opportunity to make change, but he isn't effective enough, and he failed his party badly over Brexit.

Corbyn is 68, May is 61 and Vince Cable is 74. Why aren't we looking to younger leadership? Youth obv. wouldn't necessarily fix everything, but the 60+ leadership we have now isn't fixing ANYTHING. Where are the angry young men and women? The average age of an elected MP is 50.

I think that only you can make that call OP as it comes down to your own principles and whether your misgivings outweigh your belief in the principles of your chosen political party.

I dont agree with everything corbyn says but thats probably because I am not Jezza himself. Im still in the labour party

I am a floating voter. There is nothing Corbyn can do about Brexit. He has no power and Brexit is a political hot potato which won’t leave anyone happy. It is better for labour if they keep their head down and be quiet for a while.

In fairness, other people may have a political bias, therefore you are not necessarily going to get an objective opinion.

I’m back firmly in the Lib Dem camp, even though I don’t agree with some of their policies, they have the clearest European vision and that to me is one of the most fundamental issues at the moment.

I've always voted Labour. But since Corbyn and Momentum took hold, the cult of personality and the sheer vitriol of many of their supporters has left me disgusted. The rife misogyny and anti-semitism I've witnessed at a local level is a disgrace. There's no debate. And as much as I value young people and the importance of them being politically aware, I'm sick to death of teenagers screeching and being stood as council candidates.

I think this thread is making me realise that it’s the lack of debate that’s most problematic for me. I can be involved in something that I feel is able to take dissent seriously - after all, whoever is in power needs to represent everyone, including people they disagree with. That means at least listening to other points of view. But can I be involved in something where I feel like listening to alternative opinions is seen as dangerous? Is it better to leave and be silent, than to participate in a kind of politics that I find quite sinister?

I too like Sadiq Khan. I think he’s great for London and I’m really glad he’s mayor. Sadly, I’ve heard lots of corbynites say he was only elected because of Corbyn. I’m from south London and I heartily disagree! He’s not been a supporter of corbyn, and anyway he’s a fantastic politician. I would suggest he won despite corbyn, not the other way round. But of course I don’t say these things in public ...

But of course I don’t say these things in public

In Europe today, from Greece to Germany to Croydon, one must be very aware of right-wing violence against the left.

There is nothing to fear from a gaggle of lefties in Brighton holding up an anti austerity sign demanding NHS funding.

make I was half joking ... and I’m not playing down the effect of the right. But you’ve either deliberately or mistakenly missed my point: it’s not left wing protests that I’m scared of. I am indeed a lefty often found clutching a sign and protesting against this government, among other things. What I’m scared of is people who tell me that Jews are complicit in genocide, or that questioning the leadership of the party I’ve been involved in for years is not ok. I do not acccept the argument that the right is worse so we may as well stop complaining. That feels pretty dangerous to me.

I’m staying

I was going to leave but in a few years there will be a change to rod Labour of Corbyn, McDonnell and Momentum and I am waiting to cast my vote

Have said for some time Keir Starmer should be leader I believe he will be just not yet proved himself time and time again to be far more knowledgeable, professional and intelligent than Corbyn who just likes to make anti Tory student union type statements populist politics isn’t good in any form

And he supported

Tories however crap have still had TWO female PMs now

I'd rather have a male PM than a crap female one. Both female PMs have actively pursued policies that disproportionately punish women, you need to look at the policy and not the person.

@notheretoargue I too was a very active member of a political party (different jurisdiction) but became very disillusioned with the forced nature of
some policies allowing no room for debate and some fundamental policy U-turns and it really left me confused and generally anxious for awhile, particularly when people who knew I was a member began to assume I agreed with such viewpoints as the party held.

In the end, with a somewhat broken heart, I left the party. Initially I did regret it and wished I had fought harder internally but since then have found my voice again and started to speak up for what I believe in, on Twitter and in the media, and more importantly I feel confident in myself with my group of friends and acquaintances that I can now defend my position honestly. I no longer have to deal with what I realised was a level of guilt around the hypocrisy of supporting a party that had some fundamentally different positions to me.

I agree you will never agree 100% but it is ok to disagree partially on certain aspects of health, financial or education policy but when the issue is more fundamental e.g. Cult of leader and/or anti-semitism you have to ask yourself are they doing this in my name? Because it was only after I left that I realised that this had been my main issue - it WAS in my name so long as I stayed a member but now I hold my head high as an independent but still "involved" voice

Good luck and know you are not alone!!