To think dh shouldn’t just shout at ds age 4, as his first Tactic when ds won’t do something

[LardLizard]

As it’s makjng ds ride and shouty himself
And it’s also makjng my life harder as a sahm as I’m the one dealing with the way ds thinks he can shout and be rude
But really he’s learning it from his dad

For example this am
We are all getting ready for our days
There’s aload of bingo balls all over ds floor

I got that toys thinking it would be a good way of helping him learn and recognise the numbers

Anyway dh says tidy them away
And ds says no

He can be difficult and testing and sometimes he even says this with a half smile in his face

And straight away dh will launch into shouting

Don’t say no to me
Do as your told etc

Which then makes him cry

But it doesn’t really help in the long run
Just turns ds into a shouty biy himself and the tone he uses at times is terrible

Don’t get me wrong ds is not like his all the time

So anyway I’ve said to dh you’ve gotta stop shouting at him all the time
As it’s making ds shouty and rude and dhs answer is he needs to be shouted at more
And that I let him get away with too much

I don’t at all but I don’t resort to shouting all the time as a go to method

So this am when this happens I said to ds you’ve got five mins to pack them away before you go on time out
I don’t want to put you in time out but I will if you don’t tidy the bingo balls away

He moaned the whole time but he did tidy them away
Then he tipped them out of the pit by accident
But then he tidied them away again

So aibu thinking dh needs to stop

And how do I get dh to realise this
As when I raise it with him he says ds needs to be shouted at more

I personally think little boys need to know that daddy isn't taking any sh1t and isn't interested in being constructive and nurturing when DS is rude and challenging. It is very basic male behaviour to challenge the alpha, and it does require its own response. Your DH's parenting style is not as sophisticated as yours, but boys do benefit from learning that some figures of authority are brick walls. A lot of boys struggle without a male in the house and that is one of the reasons why. Your son is probably going through a phase of challenging dad and it can benefit from a different response to yours.

You might think about talking that through with your son and seeing if you can help him unpick the message.

Well let's see. Your method worked, shouting didn't. So it's pretty obvious to me that your DH should at least try your method and see what happens.

That's bollocks. They're people not dogs. Shouting at children mostly just stops them listening, imagine if you had someone 3 foot taller than you telling at you. You wouldn't be in a calm, listening state. If you got shouted at on a regular basis at work to do your job you'd be off with stress (unless you're in the armed forces). Ask your dh to try for a week getting down on your ds' level and asking politely for him to do whatever. Explain why you're asking him to do that. See if it gets a better response.

Kinmy this is what dh thinks
That ds needs to be shouted at more

But my issues is he doesn’t try anything else first

I can understand a bit a parent snapping at the end of a long day
But surely you can’t be like this as a go to method

I think dh needs to learn some different techniques but now I’ve said all this to him he hasn’t listened to me and is now also in a jump with me and saying he doesn’t tell me how to parent .....

I just think shouting at ds makes him think he can shout at others and speak rudely to others

Was shouting the main way he was disciplined as a child? It's very hard to change your thinking of that is all you know. I recommend you both have a look at Aha parenting website. There is lots of really good advice on there.

I just think shouting at ds makes him think he can shout at others and speak rudely to others

Your son is already speaking rudely to others.

He's learned to smirk and say no when told to do something by one of his parents.

So it's possible he would have tested the boundaries further by starting to shout.

I think a happy medium has to be found. If the trips to the naughty step aren't working, then a raise voice now and then can work wonders.

I agree with you though OP, it shouldn't be his first response.

I will look at Aha parenting website
Thanks for the tip
Not sure I’ll be able to get dh to look at it too though

Worra sorry I don’t know what you mean
I know ds is shouting and speaking rudely to others
That’s my issue
And I think dh is possibly causing it

Ahh sorry I get you now OP.

My DH and I are at similar loggerheads with our parenting styles so I understand where you are coming from. I try to guide our DD using reason, logic and understanding - depending on the situation - and discipline when it's actually needed and is likely to produce good results. My DH on the other hand is massively impatient and loses his cool way too quickly, often saying horrid things, laying blame or yelling which makes everything ten times worse and then accuses me of 'pandering to her' - I don't, I can get tough when I need to but I just understand her better than he does and try to steer a path where things don't escalate. In our situation it is our DD's separation anxiety at bedtimes which is our problem, and it is genuine anxiety not deliberate naughtiness, so yelling and blaming just increases her anxiety and makes her worse. All the while he is thinking only of how her behaviour is making him feel, and not thinking about her anxiety and how she is feeling at all. Apparently if we both just scream and yell at her that will solve everything. Some men (some, not all) can be very heavy handed in their approach to parenting and can't see beyond their own anger.

My DH was like this at first - he would shout as a first resort, and then DS would cry, and DH would shout more, and so on, until someone ran out of energy.

He's better now, though. I think he gradually saw that a gentler approach was working a lot of the time, and that it kept things calmer. He still shouts if things get out of hand, but that happens much less now.

Maybe try saying "You know, I find that DS gets even worse if I shout at him - he just starts yelling too, and then we're both screaming! I've been trying to go in a bit softer and it seems to be working. Then if he really needs to be told off, I have that in reserve.".

My other name
I’ve troed saying it so gently to him
But he just gets huffy with me for critazing him

Kimmy - I think that's a toxic way to define relationships between men. DH's father raised him that way - he was the alpha, he would brook no rivals. Any testing of boundaries was met with yelling and military style discipline "for his own good" (FIL was in the army).

They are now NC. DH suffers from anxiety and panic attacks because he spent his childhood terrified of accidents which would be interpreted as "disrespect".

Saying that boys need to be verbally abused and shut down instead of treated with love and taught better behaviour just because they're boys is terrible. It might be the way a lot of men interact but that doesn't make it healthy.

No 4 year old deserves to be shouted at as a first resort. In addition it's not even working!

I wouldn't shout first.
But it sounds like the naughty step isn't working. (Not sure why you said you didn't want to put him on it?!)
DH shouts, DC cries? Does he then get a "get out of jail free" card and get away with the original behaviour?
You both need to find a technique you can use and that works.
Did he actually tip it up by accident or was it an act of defiance?

I personally think little boys need to know that daddy isn't taking any sh1t and isn't interested in being constructive and nurturing when DS is rude and challenging. It is very basic male behaviour to challenge the alpha, and it does require its own response. Your DH's parenting style is not as sophisticated as yours, but boys do benefit from learning that some figures of authority are brick walls. A lot of boys struggle without a male in the house and that is one of the reasons why. Your son is probably going through a phase of challenging dad and it can benefit from a different response to yours.

Most ridiculous thing I've heard on MN all day! What a load of sexist nonsense

My DH has a tendancy to shout/snap straight away but we've spoken about it and he does try.

I pointed out that firstly, as a male, he is bigger, more intimidating and he works away for up to 3 weeks at a time occassionally so the DC aren't as used to him and his cues. Working away means he also has to remember that interacting with children is so different to adults I think! He can scare them and the tears start and then he feels terrible!

To simplify for him I've said try and ask, then tell, then make (ie raise voice, threaten naughty step etc) Obviously that's more for putting toys away/putting shoes on etc - for whacking a sibling or sticking a finger in a socket that methods a bit too gentle.

Also, pet peeve of mine, if I'm butting heads with the DC and have started phase 3 I've asked him not to wade in and start shouting too. I know he's trying to show a united front or something but I can't bear having two adults shout at a child. Just doesn't sit right with me

It's tricky if he takes any conversation as a criticism though. At 4 years old your DC is still learning EVERYTHING, he can't toe the line immediately every time and a reminder or prompt is a better tool for teaching than being shouted in to submission.

Lol at You both need to find a technique you can use and that works

That’s what I’m trying to do !!!

I said to him I didn’t want to put him int he nailifhty step as I want him to behave

And he did tionit up by accident and he started picked them up again by himself without being told to
So it was 100percent an accident

My H was like this when DDs were little. His method did not work. Firmness with reason did. Eventually I pushed the issue and he stopped with the shouting.

Until the teenage years, that was. It's one of the reasons (there are many , many others) why we are now divorcing. That kind of rigid thinking and rigid parenting is destructive.

Well I think your DS is learning from his father that when you want something and you want it now, you shout. Which is a pretty unconstructive way to go thorugh life. You rarely get what you want from shouting, you get it by being reasonable.

I worked with children fro many years. I never shout.
In terms of tidying toys away, either make it a game ' see how quikcly you can get all those balls back inthe box, one two three GO'

Or if you get rudeness or cheek, then a low firm voice. 'Don't speak to me in that way it is very rude' you need a low volume of voice that brooks no nonsense.
The shouting is not working for your DH or for you son.

If your Dh refuses to change, then work on getting your son to understand he cannot be rude to you. Rudeness gets nothing in my house (or got nothing - my kids are adults now). Just the comment that until they can speak to you politely you are not prepared to listen.

You're not trying to do that. You are doing your own thing and DH is doing his.
Naughty step doesn't appear to be working. And trying to say you don't want to put him there is confusing. He has a choice. He behaves or there is a consequence. Don't muddy the water by saying you don't want to do it.

Well he threat if the naughty step did work, because he started picking the balls up and tidying them away

And then tipped them out again. And if you're using it a lot i would say it is ineffective.