Too early to choose career at 15!!!

[Swarskid2184]

My DD is in the middle of her mock GCSEs and has to choose her A level subjects this week (awful timing!).

She is good at lots of subjects- predicted 8 or 9 in all subjects. She had always wanted to do a science degree- initially to be a vet, then marine biology or something like that. But is doing exceptionally well at English and history at the moment...

So, her current choices are either;

1. Maths, biology and chemistry; or
2. Maths, History and English lit

So different and still no idea of degree choice...

Any advice?

She needs to be picking four for AS surely if she is bright? That gives her another year's breathing space and a feel for how well she will do at A2. Lots of Alevels are a massive jump from GCSE particularly the maths and sciences.

Since the switch from AS and A2 to Linear A levels, though, a lot of sixth firms are only allowing three, not four.

I wouldn't do the music A level because if she gets Grade 8 and a good theory exam (usually 8 but some will take a good 5 or 6) she can usually still do music at degree level anyway.

DD2 is a couple of years ahead and had the same thing. No clue at all what career she wanted. Dances, acts, plays instruments, enjoys English and the social sciences, was set on Psychology at one point. Finally decided on sciences and then got the A*s at GCSE in the English and other essay subjects! However she's doing sciences and maths at A level and it's been a good, if hard, choice. She's finally decided on Physics at uni but was interested that Edinburgh do Physics with Music and other unis will take her for a straight music degree on the fact that she has Grade 8 piano and singing, Grade 7 theory (is taking 8 in the spring). She's finally decided to keep music as a hobby, though, on the basis that she couldn't bear to end up teaching it!

Personally I'd go for at least one science with maths in her shoes.

I suppose I would bang this drum as a humanities lecturer but... While she can indeed 'read books for fun' that's nothing like doing A-levels or a degree in a humanities subject! There seems to be an assumption on this thread that the sciences will keep all the doors open, but if she does want to do a degree in a non-science subject (and that includes not just English and history but law, politics, etc.) then she'll find it hard without at least one essay-based A-level, so if that's not an option that's totally off the table I'd suggest she does either English or History to at least AS. If she absolutely does want to do a science degree then I agree that all four sciences is her best option, though.

That's funny, DD's interested in exact same subjects. But knows she wants to go medical for career so she will only do English Lit if it's a spare.

I agree it's too young. I'm foreign so situation drives me nuts.

This makes interesting reading. My 15 yr old is still a year off GCSEs - thank goodness as also has little idea of career direction but ability in a lot of areas. She is interested in exploring how far her singing could go but that is a career option that needs a solid university-level fallback! She has had a recently retired physics teacher tell her she "must" do physics but that looks unlikely (sadly); I have wondered if maths, physics, history would be a good combination. I will encourage her to do more music theory I think because that might be more use to her than a music A-level to maintain breadth.

I studied music at school (let alone uni) but am now a violin teacher ... [have picked up a lot of knowledge along the way mind you!]

It’s way too young. If she’s still considering veterinary science she really can’t try to ‘keep her options open’ without restricting her degree options. There aren’t many unis offering it and some will want chemistry, biology and maths or physics.

I'd go for the sciences if unsure, but she might want to do a science degree. I agree that it's easier to go from sciences to humanities rather than vice versa. OTOH, one thing I loved about history is that it''s very multifunctional - I really enjoyed a couple of modules looking at the history of science - but that's still nothing like doing lab work and actually doing science. Also, I would see what history syllabus they cover. Not all periods are as interesting as others. And I also agree that studying an essay subject can be useful - I have degrees in history and computer science, and I use the writing skills and critical thinking skills from the history side daily.

I agree that getting some careers advice is good - what is it she enjoys about sciences, and about history and English Lit? Maybe there's something else which could combine all aspects, and then she could check which subjects would be best for that.

Whatever she decides, it's definitely wise to keep maths in there. We do specialise way too early in education in this country, and it's particularly a problem for those who are all-rounders. I still resent that I could only do three a-levels, but it's only just under 30 years, so I might get over it given a bit more time...

Sciences, definitely sciences!

My tutor told me: you can be a scientist and do art, you can’t be an artist and do science. Physics, chemistry and biology it was, then.

I'm also surprised that a student getting 8's and 9's isn't choosing four options for year 12. Is her school restricting her to three? DD1 is a similar " all rounder" and will do four in year 12 and then possibly drop one, which feels like a nice breathing space to settle into the more narrow curriculum without making final choices. If that's an option, your daughter could do maths, biology, chemistry and either history or english, to keep the sciences front and centre, but maintain an essay subject for variety and to keep options open.

Also, is this really her final choice? DD1 also has to submit a list now, but only for timetabling purposes. Then they have one to one interviews, sixth form taster sessions and more careers advice before firming up their options. Final decision not until they actually enroll in September (although obviously the timetable may not accommodate certain combinations by then).

I wouldn't get overly concerned about an eclectic range of subjects as that might help her decide later on which path she prefers.

DS did sciences because that's his passion and he was always going to follow some kind of science path. He also wasn't keen on essay based subjects!
DD1 is doing Maths, Geography, Graphics and Psychology. All subjects she loves and is interested in. She has no idea what she'll do after A levels but does still have broad options. (Personally, I think Graphics will be her 'thing')

My tutor told me: you can be a scientist and do art, you can’t be an artist and do science

Again, clearly my humanities bias coming out here but I find this claim so, so annoying. What did he mean by 'do art'? Because reading a few popular history books, for example, isn't 'doing history' in the way doing a degree in it is. Both paths convey different knowledge and skills. That's not to say that going down a science route isn't the best idea for OP's daughter - it seems it probably is - but let's not pretend that there's nothing lost along the way if you choose that, like science gives you all the skills of the humanities and then some. That's just not true.

When I was at uni, most courses allowed you to do two modules out of department. Meaning that as a scientist you could do modules in e.g history or philosophy of science. Basically whatever fits with your timetable. It was also much easier for people to swap from sciences to a humanity. I know two who tried the other way but had to leave uni for the year, to do a catch up course to start sciences the following year.

You still write essays (publications, reports, tutor group assignments, exams etc) if you do a science subject, and if she has an aptitude for that now anyway, she won’t find it hard to deal with essays if she does switch to humanities.

I’d go Maths, one of the Sciences and one of History’s it Eng Lit.

That’s a fab combination and leaves pretty much any degree open to her.

My DP does admissions for a science subject at uni and his strongest advice is - if you want to do a science subject, for god’s sake do all science and maths at a level (and preferably higher maths too, but that’s just his subject). He hates having to turn away bright, able students who were wrongly advised to do one science, one arts subject and one social science to get a more rounded education, but he has to because they simply don’t know enough about the subject they are applying for.

If you want to go into STEM, unfortunately you do have to make that call early and aim your subjects towards it. Arts students (like me) can make the call later - do an english or history degree, then do a law conversion, or a journalism master’s, or move into publishing etc later if you want to change direction.

Should have added - you can make all those career changes later with a STEM background as well, obviously, but you would be moving away from STEM to do so.

MargaretCavendish I worked alongside a scientific artist (post doc level). It most certainly is possible!

like science gives you all the skills of the humanities and then some But basically that is true... it’s the old adage that people look at you as if you’re crazy if you say you can’t read, but it’s a badge of honour not to be able to do maths.

I’d be interested to know what skills you think a history degree confers that aren’t used in the scientific world.

I’d go Maths, one of the Sciences and one of History’s it Eng Lit.

That’s a fab combination and leaves pretty much any degree open to her.

IceFall this is bad advice and could seriously hamper her chances of getting a place on a science course at a good uni, especially if competing against students with 3 sciences. You need to check requirements of the type of course she might want to do.

Having just been here with my 2 I would say that there a very few science type degrees you can do without chemistry

When I was at uni, most courses allowed you to do two modules out of department.

I have no idea of how many universities across the country do this, but none of the four universities I've worked at allowed science students to take humanities modules, so that certainly isn't a given - if that's what you want you'd have to very carefully check across all universities. It is true that plenty of science degrees include a history or philosophy of science optional module - tellingly, this is normally specially adapted for students with no background in the subject, it's not the same course that a student doing a history or a philosophy degree would do.

I don't know about current A-level maths and chemistry but when I did them both 15 years ago there was no meaningful essay content in either of them, so I have no idea what I'd have submitted as my admissions sample work for a humanities subject if I hadn't also been doing history and English. In any case, the Russell Group university I work for requires an A-level in English lit for the BA, and I think you'll find that is very common.

Again, I think in this case it sounds like three/four sciences might be the best option for OP's daughter, but the idea that that leaves all doors open just isn't true.

Iirc (it's been a while though), she will need to do maths and chemistry for any science related degree, not just maths and any of the sciences. I agree with pp though, English and history can be done part time at any time and she won't need access to a lab. Sciences are much harder to study outside of school/college because of the lab studies needed. Doing the sciences now will keep her options open.
She should also get a couple of weeks at the beginning of sixth form to change her subjects if she wants to, I did this at the beginning of year 12 and 13. But that depends on the school/college.

I worked alongside a scientific artist

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that term. I'm not saying there are no individuals with a science background who now work in humanities subjects. I am, however, saying that it isn't true that someone with a science degree could just rock up on a history course and do as well as someone who's been developing their historical skills for years. For you to claim that the humanities convey absolutely no skills that a science degree doesn't is incredibly arrogant and suggests you just fundamentally don't value the humanities - which, rather ironically, proves you don't understand them nearly as well as you think you do!

I’m not claiming that but I am asking which skills a humanities degree convey that a science degree doesn’t.

She is a scientific artist. An artist with exhibitions inspired from natural sciences. But to get where she is, she first completed a PhD in natural sciences.

And two years of A-level study is hardly someone who’s been developing their historical skills for years!

Defo do the sciences and maths.