To feel my values are out of place?

[moutonfou]

I was brought up to have a strong sense of conscientiousness and duty to others, i.e. basic manners, kindness, sharing, civic responsibility e.g. recycling, not littering, picking up dog poop, letting buses out, giving to charity, etc.

I always thought this was the norm but increasingly I'm dismayed by the world around me. There seems to be so much crime, greed, meanness, etc. I feel everything has become rather harsh and cynical and self-focused. I know things like littering and pushing into traffic aren't big things but they smack of someone who doesn't think they have a stake in society or a responsibility to others. I just got stung for £120 by someone who stole my card details, and people's reaction has very much been 'it happens'. It shouldn't happen! I can't imagine what kind of person wouldn't think 'no, that money doesn't belong to me.'

Is it just a vocal/visible minority making me feel this way or am I now completely unusual for thinking we should all have some basic decency towards each other?

I know what you mean about the optimisim under New Labour.

Were you by any chance a Girl Guide? I'm not saying that only GGs have that outlook, but there's quite an overlap between the OP and the GG promise and law!

of course people ARE meaner ruder etc. for a start before cars, there was no road rage, people pulling out in from of you from roundabouts,junctions, using their phones while driving, andin the cinema, because there were no mobile phones, perhaps I was lucky grew up in a small village, there were no murders or attacks, you going to tell me there were acid attacks 50 years ago!

With regards to the stolen money, I'm not sure what you expected as a reaction. Your friends aren't responsible for returning, them condemning it happening doesn't have any practical effect. They don't condone or even support theft I presume, and I'd probably be nice and kind (and make sure a close friend wasn't in financial difficulty because of it), but I wouldn't waste my breath stating the obvious that it shouldn't happen!

My car was broken into, it was a pain in the arse but not the end of the world and nothing to get het up about in the grand scheme of things.

I think that there is a distinct lack of responsibility from those who do have money, and that is relatively new.

The upper classes are thankfully a relic, but the whole feudal system was based on being responsible for those who worked for you, whereas these days it’s unlikely that any company will do anything unless they have to legally.

I live in an affluent suburb, and there are absolutely no social reasons for behaving badly, ie no one needs to avoid being late for their minimum wage, so speeds past a school. No one has a reason to feel disenfranchised and “well if they won’t care about me, I will do what the hell I want”./ but it doesn’t stop people behaving like complete shits.

E.g. owning the road, driving, parking, acting as if they have absolute disregard for everyone else. The way they act in local shops, to those working there, other customers. Seriously, it’s not just one or two each day, it’s all the bloody time. Also, the behaviour of their kids in my children’s classrooms. Teachers take leave for stress, transfer to other schools, take whole years off to recoup, which may seem barmy, given the socio-economic group, but the way the children speak to them, and to each other, is revolting.

I try and block it out, but some days it leaves me feeling really flattened. And a bit pathetic for trying to instil any kind of responsibility or manners into my own children. They’re going to be considered old farts before they turn 20!

Personally, I think a shift occurred whilst the left were in power. People were actively encouraged to get into debt to buy the new biggest flat screen tv, phones etc etc. The Government became more and more of a nanny state, taking the responsibility away from people. Handing out benefits like candy, rewarding single mothers etc etc. It bred a generation of people who didn't want to be responsible for themselves, they wanted to be led around by the hand of the state. Anything to avoid taking responsibility for themselves. This fostered a sense of entitlement that has grown to a massive scale, proving almost impossible to counteract. Social media gives people a voice who would normally never be heard. This is all a double edged sword, the road to hell being paved with good intention and all that. Humanity is too immature to cope with what it actually means to be a grown up. To own yourself completely and be responsible for yourself totally and without fear. We are children, and this is what happens when we are encouraged to remain so. Thats my take, anyway.

ToneDeaf what was responsible for you being so nasty and judgemental then?

Judgemental maybe. Nasty, no. Everybody judges, like you have just done, but apparently its a crime to do so. Hey ho.

Yes nasty. Rewarding single mothers and benefits like candy? When was that exactly, because I appear to have missed my prizes?

Tra laaaa laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Are you having a stroke?

redexpat I was a Brownie and I loved every minute of it. I felt I'd found my people! But now I feel those values are seen to be quite quaint and outdated.

I'm not convinced it's got worse, just that we have a constant drip feed of bad news these days what with TV, newspapers and the internet. Bad news sells don't forget. I still get let out in traffic, and let others out. In fact I was only thinking the other day how nice the drivers on my regular route are when so many let people out who would otherwise be stuck for ages.

Regarding litter, it's always been there, but perhaps it's more noticeable because councils are no longer picking it up so it gets left longer?

I'm fairly positive because I avoid reading or watching too much negative stuff now (I used to watch lots of awful undercover documentaries but it's just depressing), and tend to home in on positive news. So on FB, for example, I mainly follow comedy and animal sanctuaries, so I'm bombarded by funny or heartwarming stories. It makes a huge difference to how I view the world.

When was this golden time when everything was much better? Every generation thinks there was one at some point before them....

cherrios, I think its when you see folk with 6-8 more kids on benefits, demanding bigger houses, etc. having holidays abroad. My DH has a car cam forget the TV of a night, he shows me people who have pulled out in front of him, no indication, then THEY get nasty, like how dare you be in my ay/in front of me. I dont think the generation before me, had i better. It was simpler when I was growing up, no, cars, Tvs phones, unless you were the local GP, my (late) fther had multiple serious untreatable health problems, there were no benefits in the 50s for him, my late DM had a little cleaning job. A few months back I had just had a growth removed, was told it was malignant, but wasnt known how bad, once I could start driving etc, tooki my dogs on the beach lovelly day, 8am no-one around, I let them off their leads just before the steps to the beach, along comes a couple am guessing around 70, bloke screaming at me, because my dogs are off the lead, I was so upset, almost in tears, them luckily, met a lovelly lady with her dog, I was feeling very low for some weeks, cheered up by the sun and the idea of a walk on the beach.

It was simpler when I was growing up, no, cars, Tvs phones

Are you over a hundred?

Acid attacks feature in Sherlock Holmes (the Conan Doyle version), so definitely not a new thing.

Mass production of motor cars started in 1896 and complaints of inconsiderate driving was part of the phenomenon from the very start. Toad of Toad Hall wouldn't make much sense if the character wasn't already well known- Wind in the Willows was published in 1908.

Automated telephone switchboard, allowing customers to make a call to someone they were not directly connected to, were set up in the early 1900s. Downton Abbey are not far off when they have Lord Grantham install one at the start of WW1, remembering that he (not to mention his butler!) is rather a conservative character, hesitant to try anything new.

As for murders and attacks, the violent crime rate is lower now than at pretty well any other period in history.

It is well attested, through biographies and similar, that behaviour towards teachers in many schools (including expensive public schools) was appalling in the 1800s/early 1900s, but as poor discipline was blamed on the teacher's failure to maintain discipline, individuals rarely published the fact at the time: they just hoped the headmaster wouldn't notice.

Do you I think its when you see folk with 6-8 more kids on benefits, demanding bigger houses, etc. having holidays abroad. or do you just hear people repeating unsubstantiated stories?

The first part of the quote crept in by mistake. It should have been Do you see...

I think there is a danger in "everybody is so badly behaved these days, I'm the only one who's got any standards". It encourages you to look at the worst behaviour around and pat yourself on the back for not being quite as bad as that. It doesn't make for any very high standards for anyone and chances are it won't encourage you to be the best you can be.

There is another path that is equally possible, and that is to look for the best behaviour around, the people who are kindest and most generous and most self-sacrificing, and say to oneself "I'm not really up to their standards yet- but I can work on it".

not over 100, 67

mass production of cars may have started in the 1800s but we didnt have one, or a TV or phone, you walked to call box 4 old pennies, walked to school caught a bus think we had TV and car when I was around 10.

Huh, on the beach today collected several handfulls of plasic bottles, tin cans, pill packets, fishing line large amount rubber gloves. Tesco for papers picking up ciggarate packets, till receipts, statements from cashpoint. Yes, its absolutely marvelous today, no
problems at all, sherlock holmes was fiction, christ, did I just see Francenstines moster walking past!!

Just thought 25 years ago, hardly the dark ages, I didnt have a car or a phone, couldnt afford them. We had central heating put in our last house 20 years ago, before that, it was a gas fire in the lounge with a back boiler for hot water. neather my DH or I feel the need to waste money on a mobile phone, people these days feel entitled to everything.