To ask for your help in dealing with people who think No is the start of a negotiation?

[lostpurplehoodie]

I’ve been a people pleaser most of my life (dysfunctional upbringing) and I’m working hard on setting boundaries and only doing things I want to do/are convenient for me rather than continually changing my plans to accommodate others. It’s not natural for me to say no and it causes me quite a lot of anxiety but I figure with time this will change and I need to go through this phase in order to get better.

Anyway, I had an exchange with someone yesterday that went along these lines:
Them: “Can you help at X event on Y date”
Me: “Not this year as DH and I are out of the country”
Them: “Is that already booked”
Me:”Not yet, but it’s the one week we can do” (appreciate this is a mistake but ffs why ask if it’s booked already. I said no).
Them: “Your assistance will be much missed, as will DH’s muscles”

So I left it at that, pretty pissed that they didn’t accept no as my answer and then pretty much said we’re only wanted for our help not our company, only to wake up to an email from someone else from the organisation saying how much they hope I’ll be there at the event to help.

AIBU to tell them to all fuck off? I don’t want to because they’re an organisation that is a part of my life and social circle, but they have form for not listening to me in the past (I resigned from a committee when I was ill and they sat on the paperwork as they “didn’t think I was serious and could surely just ignore the emails” and I had to get very cross indeed for them to listen).

How does one deal with people who won’t hear you say no?

Perhaps you could ask if they've already booked Y date for X event, or if they could move it? ;)

Shifty you wouldn't really say that would you? That doesn't sound like something someone would actually say in real life.

Op I agree with others that the 'we'll miss you...' bit sounds to me like they've accepted you're not coming. I would leave it there. I would simply not have replied to the 'is it booked' email. You had told them clearly you couldn't do it - that's enough

Sorry sorry - I thought the exchange was by email.

In person I'd have laughed it off - something like 'is it booked' 'ha ha shall I shift my holiday for this event then?' And then changed the subject.

Is the organisation religious? I find this a lot. I say I'm busy on x night, they say oh just come a bit late. They don't seem to understand our whole lives don't revolve around them.

It was a text exchange, and the email asking for me to do it came some 12 hours after the “you’ll be missed” comment, which I had taken as acceptance until the email arrived.

I have responded to the email with just the single word “no” now. It feels pretty rude, but I tried polite and that didn’t work. I wonder if this will?

I wondered that too. Especially is evangelical circles (I count myself in) there's a certain entitlement/ belief that you'll say no if you need to and the requestee doesn't need to moderate their demands.

I think if they contact you again, you need to point out it is harassment of you and ask them to stop.

You don’t need any more explanations.

You do maybe need to think about your commitments with this organisation and rearrange matters to spend time with people who don’t pressurise you. This is doubly important given your upbringing.

Enjoy your holiday!

The difficulty with saying no is that people don't always react well. You have to factor that in to your practice. There's a whole industry devoted to training people to 'get to yes' based on not being put off by a no.

I think you did well to say no and stick to it. It feels uncomfortable now as they have done a bit of emotional blackmail. But the outcome is good - you aren't going and you can enjoy your holiday. The discomfort will fade and it may be easier next time.

Your assistance will be much missed, as will DH’s muscles

“Don’t worry, I’ll make sure DH’s muscles are well used on our holiday”

I think when you first start saying no it is quite hard to judge. And that, combined with people just assuming they can wear you down, results in you losing temper, and feeling like you aren't being heard, and making the misstep of giving reasons/to much information.

You're doing the right things, honestly - and when they continue to push they are being rude, not you.

Now that I'm much better at saying no I can get away with an even toned and repeated, "no, I'm afraid it's not possible", "because it's just not possible", but as you've found at first you might have to be tougher.

I think your simple "no" was a good choice there - you've not blown up at them, which they deserve after that cheekiness, but you've been extremely clear and given them nowhere to go.

You're over-thinking this, I'm guessing/assuming because you've had difficulties saying no in the past.

It really doesn't have to be such a big deal (and you are winding yourself up and making it into a big deal OP). And there's no need for being rude or unpleasant (like some of the suggested replies by posters). Just keep it light and friendly. No, we can't. No, we'll be away. If/when you get silly questions about changing your trip, just laugh and say ha ha you're funny.

Relax OP! This is part of learning to say no. It's not just using the word, it's learning to not have the emotional angst that comes up saying no if you're new to it. Say no, forget about it, move on.

I say no quite happily all the time. In fact all my team at work know that if you ask for anything before I've had at least one coffee, the answer will be no regardless of what the question is.

"I had to go full-on angry (which I hate) and point out that their disregard of my instructions was likely to result in me leaving their organisation. It wasn’t dignified but after lots of telling them the same thing and being ignored it was the only thing that got through, but it did damage me. And it had no effect because the behaviour this time around is the same."

I disagree that it had no effect; you got what you needed at the time, when politely insisting was getting you nowhere.
Some people don't take any notice until you start shouting, and that's really hard for those of us brought up to always co-operate and be polite. It's not easy. People can get very nasty when they're told "no". That doesn't mean you have to keep going along with them.

Learn to lie. Practice in a mirror.

Them: “Can you help at X event on Y date”
Me: “Not this year as DH and I are out of the country”
Them: “Is that already booked”
Me: Yes. When DH and I realised it was the only time we could get together, we jumped on it straight away.
Them: “Your assistance will be much missed, as will DH’s muscles”

You have told them NO once and that should suffice. Ignore emails and other requests and go away and enjoy your hols

Don't engage any more. Just 'No, can't help. Sorry.' You're doing well.

Much sympathy, I'm another recovering people pleaser. Basically because I was raised to be a co enabler.

The biggest change for me was realising that if someone else is unhappy with me or my answer and pressuring me to change it that does not mean I have done something wrong . How they choose to feel about that answer is on them. Guilt dumping, passive aggressive statements like 'you'll be much missed' is poor behaviour on their part, not something you have a duty to fix for them. It is ok for other people to take responsibility for their own actions and feelings.

Another tactic I learned here on MN is not to say anything that validates that it's still open for discussion. So instead of you explaining all the reasons that won't work and them continuing to try and debate those reasons and find ways around them, you can either try being a stuck record and just repeat the 'No, that won't be possible this time' (and if they make you repeat that enough they start to realise they're being rude) or if necessary a gentle "I'm not sure why you're not listening to my answer?"

Big, I wouldn’t personally say all that because I’m comfortable with confrontation and I wouldn’t need to say it. I could just stare down the person with raised eyebrows and ask “why?” And they’d mutter a sorry. Because they’re not asking if it’s booked because they worry your flights might be sold out, they’re suggesting you change your holiday plans in order to volunteer st the event, and trying to guilt you into it.